2. cables
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Math + Logic + Science = something completely mad...

So, I've done a metric fuckton of research, notwithstanding the clear bias the man who designed and built my Belles has against esoteric cabling.  And here's the conclusion to which I arrived. 

My monoblocks are sitting on top of the speakers.  The distance from the amp to the speaker is barely a foot, which is exactly how long a run of wire I intend to use.  Goal is to minimize the effect the wire has on the sound.  

According to the calculations I've seen and done, the skin effect depth on copper wire at 20Khz is 461 micrometers.  Meaning a 19-gauge copper wire (911 mics diameter) would reduce skin effect to zero.  As in no impact whatsoever on the signal. 
 
Of course, it's actually very difficult to find 19-gauge wire.  18-gauge (1024 mics) is much easier, and the skin effect is near zero, but not quite zero.  Seems to be an acceptable compromise. Could go down to 20-gauge and eliminate skin effect entirely.  If I could find insulated aluminum wire, 18-gauge would eliminate skin effect entirely, because skin effect depth on aluminum at 20khz is 580 mics.  

12 inches of 18-gauge wire produces 0.006 ohms of additional resistance.  20-gauge = 0.01 ohms.  

Frankly, I don't see the value in spending big bucks on esoteric, heavy-gauge wire for this application.  I'd rather make the bigger investment in the 2m runs from the preamp to the blocks, because that's where the wire's going to have a hell of a lot more of an effect on the sound.  

Stepping back to allow you all the opportunity to punch holes in my thought process here. 
jerkface

Showing 4 responses by williewonka

williewonka
3,072 posts
 
@jerkface - Unfortunately I do not make cables for others - for various reasons.

But there are members that will

However, the parts are a little expensive + time/effort to build - the price gets up there.

Let me know if interested and I'll put you in touch 

Regards - Steve


williewonka
3,072 posts
 
@jerkface - have you considered wire type, wire material, insulation?.

Wire type: solid wire is far superior to stranded wire

Wire Material: UP-OCC solid Silver is best, but to keep it reasonable then use UP-OCC solid copper

Insulation has an impact on the signal, so you should look at getting as close to an Air insulation as much as possible.

NOTE: Insulation acts like a dielectric and there is a measurement called Dielectric Constant, where...
  • Teflon is 2.2
  • Foamed Teflon is 1.45
  • cotton is 1.3
  • Air is 1.1
  • vacuum is 1.0
So to make your cables...
  • Start with bare UP-OCC wire
  • Actually use two identical wire twisted together for each conductor - it seems to improve things, but I am yet to discover exactly why
  • insert the bare wire into a Teflon tube that is just larger than the wire - the tube does not collapse around the wire like cotton, so the wire only ever touches the tube in one very small place - the rest of the wire is surrounded by air
  • seal the ends with a small piece of heat shrink to prevent oxidation
  • Attach KLE Innovations Bananas, they provide the best connection method available - I've tried many methods and these are the best
Since you are keeping the wires as short as possible you should get the best sound possible using this technique

I use cables that are 9ft long and get exceptional sound quality.

Take a look at this thread...
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/duelund-conversion-to-diy-helix-geometry-cabling

The last two pages talk about Air dielectric and what others have found when applying this approach

There is also mention of power cables and Interconnects that adopt the Helix geometry, materials and insulations mentioned in that post and they work extremely well

Cables are far more complex than people believe them to be - it’s NOT as many believe just L, C, R.

Regards - Steve

williewonka
3,072 posts
 
@dietch2 - well I’ve just spent the better part of the last 4 years ACTUALLY TRYING all of the things I have mentioned and in that time I have found that EVERY one of the things I mentioned does actually make for a vastly superior cable - regardless of length.

How did I measure all of this - with my ears.

I have tried cables from 12 ft long to 1 ft long and YES the incorporation of the adaptions I suggested made a noticeable improvements, not only in high end gear but budget systems also

MY PROCESS: I would change just one thing each time and make note of my observations.

So I’m not disputing what you say - you seem very educated
- I’m just stating what I have observed to make a noticeable difference

Regards - Steve
williewonka
3,072 posts
 
@jerkface - You seem to have misinterpreted my postings somewhere along the way, since I have made NO mention about Skin effect in any of my posts

And for the record - I do not consider skin effect to be an issue in the audio bandwidth of 20-20kHz.

But for everyone's edification, here is just one web site that I encountered during my investigations into dielectric materials - and they have far more experience in cable building  than myself
LAB: Comparing Dielectric Effect Distortion to Jitter (anticables.com)

But in order to avoid a long read - here is an extract
When the music signal flows through a cable, the dielectric material (insulation) around the wire absorbs some if this magnetic energy, but then re-releases it back into the wire slightly later in time. This time smearing of the music signal is called dielectric effect distortion. Both this and jitter distortion collapses the sound stage, makes the music sound hard and closed in, and reduces dynamics making the music sound lifeless and un-involving

To complicate things further - consider the effect it has on what we hear from a two channel system
- those distortions present minute differences in phase between L and R channels
- these impact imaging, clarity and dynamics 

Will this impact a 12" cable? - I found it was discernible on my system

So that's about all I have to contribute to this particular thread

I wish you well in your endeavors to find your Nirvana

Signing off - Steve
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