Lossless Files Vs CD's

I don't hear any real difference generally, but I would give the edge to the lossless files in terms of overall quality consistency and reliability in that they effectively take the error prone real time optical read aspect of playing CDs out of the equation technically.

"for a disk that is in good condition that will happen rarely during the playing of a disk, and not at all in many or most cases."

Probably one explanation for why I can't hear a difference in most cases. The eror correction built into CD redbook format is fairly good it seems, but of course there is always a threshold in regards to disk quality and mechanical/optical reader performance/reliability in practice that could make a difference.

It still seems to me that Bit-perfect ripping does provide the best case scenario for reliably getting the data off the optical disk as best as possible still though I would say in that the need to read data in real time with a certain minimum throughput (in lieu of buffering) is a constraint with playing a CD that does not exist with ripping.

THere is still lots that can go wrong downstream from there in regards to jitter in particular even with a practically bit perfect ripped .wav file. More so in general perhaps in the case of FLAC which is lossless but compressed and requires more processing in the D2A conversion process.

Audioengr,

What is the reason for the sound difference between FLAC and WAV? Is FLAC a more limited format in some way than WAV?

Is it a format related limitation or something more to do with software for creation or the playback?

In my case, 99% of my files are .wav. I have a few FLACS created via different software. I think I hear a difference in general between the two but have not compared carefully enough to say for sure.

Steve,

Makes sense.

Logitech Media Server and Squeezebox Touch convert .wav files to and from FLAC for higher bandwidth transmission over the network as I recall. It seems to do a good job based on results as best I can tell. Not sure exactly what codec LT media server uses for FLAC or how it might be better or different than others.

I had Roku SOundbridge prior. No conversion was done there. Both Roku and SB sound quality is quite good. Roku definitely had more bandwidth issues resulting in frequent rebuffering. SB TOuch has virtually none. I attribute the SB superiority in this regard to some combo of better/more recent hardware, more efficient code and perhaps more efficient use of network bandwidth.

"Configured optimally SqueezeCenter (Server) decodes FLAC at the computer/server and streams PCM to the Squeezedevice. At least that's the way I understand it to work."

THat is no the default behavior though, right?

I seem to recall there are ways to configure that would change teh default behavior which as I recall is to convert to (lossless) compressed FLAC to improve network throughput?

I will need to revisit the documentation. The default settings work very well in regards to sound quality it seems so I have not bothered to experiment. I like that I hardly ever get rebuffering events while listening. FLAC format lossless compression probably helps with that but maybe it is not required.

I have worked professionally with compression algorithms though not for audio applications. If done correctly, I would tend not to fear them, especially "lossless" compression which is used prudently and regularly in many computer applications , but of course, in this world, we all know that things are not always done correctly....

Listening involves significant subjective judgement when it comes to sound quality.

There is no guarantee that listening alone will determine the quality of the digital source, especially if the two compared are more similar than different. Too many other factors at play.

I am a software engineer with a background in digital imaging for military applications as well and a long time audio geek. I agree with the others that assert a properly impemented lossless CD rip to file has fewer technical obstacles in its way and playback is less problematic than from an optical CD reader typically.

I have done enough comparisons myself to be convinced there is no significant difference between CD resolution lossless files ripped accurately by software designed to rip in a manner that properly validates the data read before writing.

I lose no sleep over this.

There is a lot that goes into creating a good digital music library from various sources though, especially non-digital ones like vinyl and tape. I have lost some sleep probably at some time trying to make that process both fast and efficient.

CD ripping is a slam dunk these days though.

Eat, rip and be merry......