Is a Linn Sondek LP12/Lingo/Ekos with a Cirkus update, the last turntable I’ll ever buy?

daveyf,

'So, and i have said this many times before, if one is looking for a 'plug and play' type of turntable, then the Linn LP12 probably is not for you. The Technics definitely would be far better as a 'plug and play' solution.'


I agree. Absolutely. The Technics is a far better plug and play turntable. It is also more likely to be the choice of any professional vinyl archivist.

Even worse, despite the many speed accuracy upgrades since the original cheap noisy A/C motor unit (which Linn used to once boast about whilst denigrating DC motors) there have been numerous upgrades, including the current top of the range DC motor!

Yet despite them all, the Valhalla, the Lingo, Lingo 2, Radikal etc, I bet that even the Technics SL1200GR still has the better speed accuracy specs, or any other for that matter  

I wouldn't even be too surprised if Linn oneday eventually did a complete 180 and introduced a direct drive version themselves. 

Of course the LP12 does have a certain charm, in the same way a vintage Thorens or a Garrard deck might also have. It is now a part of audio history, despite its murky origins and the notorious legal action which dogged it's early years.

Buying a Linn might be likened to buying a vintage Ferrari. There are many reasons for buying one, but performance for $ is not one of them. No, it should be a matter of passion, and possibly one of dream fulfilment. For better or worse, it is one of the most obsessively compelling audio products ever built.

However, questions still remain as to what the best arm for the Linn is as I remember the Ekos1 getting trounced by Naim's Aro, which is no longer available.

Then there's the question of just how much better is a top spec 2020 LP12 v a top spec 1980s LP12. I have heard that some have argued that successive upgrades have somewhat diminished its fabled analogue warmth. I don't know, and it's difficult to find out as Linn seem to have given up on promoting the LP12 at shows.

The last Linn product I heard, and that was some 6/7 years ago, were some large ugly overpriced floorstanders.

It would also have been nice if Linn had admitted the LP12s heritage and had paid some tribute to its predecessors.
Linn didn't do that. They instead engaged in some very dodgy marketing and business practices and have been consequently enjoying milking the same sacred cow for decades.

The post Ivor, low key Linn, were almost on the verge of killing it off at one point. I bet they're now glad that they didn't. 

Anyone interested should certainly consider buying into the cult of the LP12 - but only if they absolutely must.

And if you do, please make sure it has the reinforced top plate.

@daveyf ,

’There really isn’t any question that the Linn LP12 today is a superior table from any version from the 80’s or even 6/7 years ago!’


Linn have been spinning that guff for decades, and decades. Every few years it is claimed that some new improvement is found.

If so, then why not compare the current with the previous?

Basically, whichever way you care to spin it, the current Linn is just slightly better engineered version of Edgar Villchur’s pioneering 1962 AR Turntable.

Same 3 point suspended suspension, same belt drive, and same platter.

Is there anything even remotely original about the Linn?

@atmasphere , I agree. I wouldn’t think twice before choosing the Technics before the Linn. Any Technics, the G, the GR etc.


As @lewm said, ’If I wanted to be sarcastic, I might suggest that it is the last turntable you will ever buy, but it might be a prelude to the upgrade-itis that afflicts some Linnies, courtesy of Linn.’

Linn have made a speciality of promoting upgrade-itis. For crying out loud the LP12 has had more ’improvements’ than virtually all the other turntables ever made.

Even now in 2020 they continue to pull the same old scam. All this talk of Linn whisperers, set up jigs, regular dealer involvement etc still gives me the chills. Doesn’t look as if much has changed.

As @chayro said, ’When well set up, it has a really nice sound that many people love.’

This I think is the problem. An LP12 when set-up well, no easy feat, does attain a near mastertape like sound quality, but it mainly depends upon the perfect bounce of its 3 point suspension.

This can be a very uncertain business due to the thick arm cable and the positioning of the motor/belt to steady the sub-chassis whilst in rotation. Of course it will work satisfactorily when just adequately setup but you will not hear what it can truly be capable of.

Furthermore, it was always considered to be at its best when sited upon a table where the vertical bounce could be most effective. Wall shelves can introduce exactly the kind of lateral instability it can handle least well.

It really is vital to get that suspension working as smoothly and freely as possible in a perfectly vertical motion. Once achieved, a whole layer of hash seems to be removed, and the elusive charm of the LP12 comes through.

Not bad for a design based on the Ariston RD11, which itself was based on the Thorens td150 which again was based on the grandaddy of them, the original AR turntable from 1962.

Here’s a rare clip featuring its designer, the legendary Edgar Villchur.

https://youtu.be/OOlAua3tBSw

Linn aren’t going to rebut anything!

Ivor’s son Gilad who now runs Linn
(though his dad came back as ’advisor’) has never shown any interest in the LP12 or even turntables in general.

I wouldn’t be too surprised if he sends out the kill order sometime in the near future. I’m guessing it’s just the revenue from the various add-ons and upgrades that are keeping it afloat and the accountants at bay - for now.

For sure it’s a nice deck and is kind of iconic, but it started off with a terrible cheap motor and comparatively poor speed control, issues they’ve been addressing ever since.

Nearly all LP12s out there still have two other serious problems, and where is the fix?

The first is the way Linn chose to attach its arms to the sub-chassis - the structurally disastrous armboard.

The need for absolute structural integrity between the bearing and the arm pillar was long known. So why did it take Linn so long to address this issue (Keel £2600 /Kore £800) themselves. And what about the cost?

And why do it twice? Is there going to be a third effort, or even a fourth?

Rega seem to have tackled this issue in a far more economical fashion with its metal top brace.

Here’s another reminder of its importance from the creator of this design.

https://youtu.be/OOlAua3tBSw


The second, more intractable one is the issue of a floating 3 point sub-chassis attached to a motor via a rubber belt and a thick arm cable.

Just how do you intend to ever improve stability and speed accuracy without a truly radical overhaul?

May I suggest a direct drive motor mounted underneath the floating sub-chassis that would do away with the outdated belt attached motor?

I don’t know if you remember but Linn used to claim that belt drives were superior because the rubber would would isolate some of the AC motor vibrations.

Well, it looks as if that concept has finally reached the end of its useful road. There are better options now.

[Anyone care to publish the top of the range current Linn specs for rumble and wow/flutter?]

The astronomically priced LP12 is little more than a period piece now.

Even its makers know it.

@stringreen,

’If you leave the setup to a pro.....by you bring it home, it will need another adjustment’


Unfortunately, that was my experience too. In the end I got a setup manual from Linn and decided to do the job myself. Many others did similarly, but I wouldn’t recommend it - especially if yours has one with a defective top plate.


All Linn LP12 promo threads run the risk of former disgruntled dissatisfied owners speaking up.

And there’s more than a few...

Linn are possibly one of the most maligned companies in audio today. They no longer seem to have the power to court /coerce reviewers and dealers as they once did.

They couldn’t even be bothered to support their own UK forum for their customers. Now it’s just left to one or two diehard fans.

Yet they were once one of the most admired.

With their strategy of endlessly fleecing their loyal customer base with a stolen design they didn’t really do themselves any favours, did they?

Even if the current LP12 is a much more stable and consistent design than it was, and there’s little assurance of that, then it still faces an entirely different level of competition than it once did.

On the plus side, we should see a continued gradual falling in used prices to bring it within reach of any of those who might have wondered what the fuss was all about.

@stringreen,

’cd-18......that’s exactly what I did....got that dealer setup manual, the device to put the table on so that I could get under easily to adjust the springs, etc. Was quite good at it...lots of experience.’


Brave man. It’s not for everyone, and lord help you if you’ve picked up a dud. Personally I wouldn’t touch one with a pre-2003 top plate.

One of the top experts in setting up this challenging deck seems to be Peter Swain of Cymbiosis who have very generously made his excellent set up guides available here.

These are not only been updated but are infinitely more useful than the original set-up guides.

https://www.cymbiosis.com/downloads/