Installing Dedicated Power Lines -- Need Advice

@millercarbon I'm interested in the Decware unit. I agree it will probably be a good value. He says one thing I need help with, though.

Decware: "Some people will wonder how this approach compares to a power re-generator so it pays to know that a power re-generator is a large power amplifier. It simply plays a 50/60 cycle note (sine wave) instead of music. It is, nevertheless, an amplifier whose performance is affected by incoming power quality just like anything else therefor it would make sense to plug a power re-generator in the Zen Line Conditioner."

My understanding was that if one buy a regenerator, they're done. That thing takes whatever power is in the wall and by regenerating power in a clean way, also cleans it up. That's what I take the P.S. Audio products to be claiming. Did I miss something? If one goes the regenerator route, do they also need a conditioner? 

@lowrider Thanks. So the statement on the Decware site is flat out false? Or maybe some regenerators work differently and need a conditioner?

@millercarbon Since you recommended the Decware unit, perhaps you know what Decware is saying that both lowrider and I are missing?

Declare looks like a very good power conditioner. They explain exactly how it works using filtering. PS Audio is a power regenerator. I think you should go to their website or a review to understand how it works.

I've heard Paul at PS Audio talk about his regenerators a dozen times. There's nothing more I think I can learn from the website. Millercarbon directed this thread to the Decware unit which claims that it is useful even with a regenerator. That does not make sense.

Circling back to the Decware vs. regenerator issue. Here is what P.S. Audio wrote to me when I asked them about using both: "I don’t agree with the statement from Decware [that Decware's conditioner can be used in addition to a regenerator]. We do not recommend a line conditioner in conjunction with our power regenerators. We do feel that they can limit the power coming in from the wall by using high/low pass filters which do essentially choke the electricity to the regenerator."

So, which is it? Decware's version of what is best or P.S. Audio's? @millercarbon  I'm still curious what you think since you have a lot of experience with power and also recommended the Decware.

@millercarbon I love House! Great show. And I understand why manufacturers mislead or lie. But if a regenerator’s very design obviates the need for a conditioner -- which is a statement of fact (either true or false) -- then its being uttered by a manufacturer doesn’t change its truth value. To argue it does is ad hominem and doesn’t answer my question.

@lowrider57  
@millercarbon 

It does seem that each unit is stand alone. P.S. Audio claims that, based on how their unit works. Decware, however, says that it is and it isn't stand alone. His website clearly says that using both units can be complementary. That sounds like an effort to sell a conditioner to both customers with and without a regenerator. 

MC says that "PSAudio is full of it." I'm going to take his advice and not merely trust him on that. Why are they full of it? Be specific, please, on this issue if you know the answer. What about their unit is *not* standalone? Or maybe the answer is that it just doesn't work? That would explain it, but please state that if it's true. Trying to learn, here.

Perhaps you don’t have an engineering explanation. This is not about claims or perfection or whatever. I’m trying to get to the bottom of what their product does and whether that obviates the need for a conditioner.

They claim to take AC power and regenerate it so that the result is nearly flawless. If that is what their product does, then a conditioner would only be filtering some noise out so that the P.S. Audio product takes *that* and regenerates that signal. That seems like overkill -- unless what you’re saying is that this is analogous to, say, making coffee with pure water rather than tap water. In that scenario, the filter in the coffee cone would do an even better job. Perhaps that’s what you’re saying?

But that analogy doesn’t quite work, since a coffee filter doesn’t "rebuild" the water, it only filters it. The regenerator reconstitutes the energy.

I am new to this and I don’t want to be tendentious. I’m sorry but I cannot make my question clearer.

Anyone else want to take a crack at my question? @atmasphere?

@yogiboy @djones51
Thank you for the reference to that thread. Hearing the argument that "P.S. Audio claims they are perfect and why do you believe them?" wasn’t providing the technical details I repeatedly asked for. So I appreciate YOU reading and hearing my question -- and directing me toward an answer.

For others following this thread wanting actual knowledge, here’s key bits from the highly credentialed Almarg (RIP). He pretty much shows why the Decware claim (and tendentious anti-PS Audio arguments) are flotsam. Whether these products are right for me or anyone else is an open question. That has to be tried and listened to. But the notion Decware’s $1k conditioner would assist a $2k plus P.S. Audio regenerator is put to rest, for me.

Almarg:

"4) The fact that the power regenerator essentially breaks the path between ac from the wall and the ac input to the power amplifier, since the ac provided to the amplifier is derived from the regenerator’s internal oscillator, and is amplified by circuits that are isolated from the wall ac by the regenerator’s power supply....

"Filtering" of ac to me means something conceptually similar to putting an inductor in series with the ac line, and a capacitor across the ac line. Both of which tend to block high frequency noise components. And that is conceptually what a line conditioner does, while a regenerator will eliminate anything and everything other than 60Hz (not just high frequency noise components), including for instance 120Hz and 180Hz and other harmonic distortion which may be present on the power line.
...
…[I]n principle a power regenerator should do the best job. However, a good one, with sufficient output capability to power an amplifier and other components that may draw considerable current, will cost considerable $, and also be substantial in size and weight. The leading example that I know of is the PS Audio Power Plant Premier, which costs $2200.

…A power regenerator is an electronic component which contains internally a 60Hz oscillator driving a high capacity power amplifier. Its 60Hz output is what powers the audio system, and the ac from the wall is only used to power the regenerator itself. So in principle the audio system will see ac power that is very pure, and essentially free of noise, harmonics, etc.

A power conditioner is essentially a filter, which passes the 60Hz ac from the wall to the audio system, while attenuating to some degree the noise and other spectral impurities that may be present. Some of them also provide outlets that are isolated from each other to some degree, so that noise from digital components can be prevented from coupling into analog components via their power connections."