How to get the impact of a live concert?

Also often more current delivery with many speakers, probably including the Gallo's but less so for the Klipsch.

The Gallo bass drivers fire sideways as I recall so that alone would probably up the ante in terms of power needed to deliver a certain level of impact at the listening position.

Proper damping of the speaker by the amp is very important.

Build quality of drivers and the overall speaker design is important also though size does of course matter when it comes to attempting live concert like impact.

A good sub can certainly help if integrated well, though that can be tricky to achieve well in many cases.

I love the Bel Canto ref1000m/OHM 5 omni speaker combo I use in particular in this regard. This combo does it all in regards to reproducing the impact of a live concert in my room. I can't imagine it being any better.

The Audio Asylum thread is a good one with valid points.

Its not easy and requires first knowing what "there" means to you, and then a lot of work and experimentation over time perhaps to get there. It took me years (decades actually) but I do not necessarily agree that one can never get "there".

"There" will always be a reproduction with some limits/variations in practice, but these can be made insignificant to the point where it really should not matter to most. Money, time, and knowledge are certainly the keys.

Yep, in general, the quick recipe to best get impact of a live concert is larger speakers with more and or larger quality drivers, the highest power and current quality power amp you can manage to drive them, and a quality source to feed it all.

Bottom line, you need an effective combo of both quantity and quality. ALso larger and/or less lively rooms will require more quantity than others. In smaller/livelier rooms, less can be more.

Roxy,

My OHMs do it for me as well but require a larger amp to do it best.

They are not horns nor conventional box/dynamic speakers. The OHM CLS Walsh driver configuration used is fairly unique.

I have heard some very large and expensive conventional box design speakers do very well with suitable amplification. Same with horns, but with fewer watts.

Also remember to consider that continuous SPLS above 83-85 db or so are generally regarded to be harmful to our ears. SO, practically, be careful about what you wish for in terms of loudness and dynamics like a live concert. You just might get it...too much...too often. Better for a music lover to preserve their hearing as best as possible. A very loud, very good, very dynamic home system can literally be the equivalent of a lethal weapon to your ears.

"Again, I'm not talking about volume. I'm talking about the impact, dynamics, feeling, whatever "

Obviously, these all depend on volume/SPL levels attainable cleanly. Can't have impact and dynamics and maximum feeling without sufficient volume/SPLs.

"Throwing a huge soundstage or getting every note exactly right" also depends significantly on volume.

Ok, never mind then.

"Most times concert sound sucks.Just loud."

VEry true, but sometimes it is done well, sometimes to essential perfection. THose are the ones I have heard that I use as a reference.

Omnidirectional speakers and the OHMs I use specifically are uniquely able to to deliver a "live sounding" sound in my home. Other conventional design speakers and planars I use or have used in the past, less so, and better suited for how most of use are used to listening to recordings. These are two uniquely different things, different ways of presenting the same recordings. WHich is better will largely come down to a matter of preference.

I know a small place in Maryland that books name acts in a club-like setting and the sound is always spot on. I have been there about a half dozen times seeing various acts and seated in the "sweet spot".

Find a place like this, that cares about good sound along with the rest of a quality product, even if just with local talent, and use it as a reference for the kind of live sound one might have a chance of reproducing very well at home.

Symphony halls often have great live sound as well, but getting your room to match acoustics of a large venue like a symphony hall is not a good place to start :-).

"Mapman, what venus are you speaking of in Maryland?"

Hmm, well, its very small and only a few tables in the sweet spot, so I am going to be a bit selfish and not disclose openly here.

I would send you an email if that were still possible incognito in A'gon?

Maybe I can give a clue or two. It hosts well known national acts almost nightly year round and is ~34 miles from Washington DC according to google maps in Maryland and not in Baltimore although there is an affiliated venue there.

ALso FWIW, their web site claims a current #1 nightclub ranking in the world. Definitely one of the best I have attended.

Another I have been to only once but delivered an absolute top notch sounding event when I did several years back was Snug Harbor Jazz Club near the French Quarter in New Orleans.

"I have heard fewer systems that at moderate volumes get a lot closer to the feeling created (for example) by a live kick drum and snare, and which as a result allow the bass playing on the music to be much more realistically in synch (groove) with the drummer, and not just a stodgy mess. That's what creates impact and excitement in playback."

Part of this may be dynamic limitations with the playback system and or recording format (like CD) but this may not be the system necessarily. It could be an aspect of many recordings as well as due to our ear's lowered sensitivity to low frequencies at lower volume. This is the kind of thing loudness controls and other forms of equalization are designed to correct by again INCREASING VOLUME of the needed frequencies ONLY. As the chart shows, this is less of an issue at higher volumes in general, which is why upping the volume knob almost always helps.

"Live" music occurs typically at fairly high live volumes/SPLs. There is no volume knob available to turn it down and have these effects come more into play although typically listening from a more remote location would have a similar effect.

"Pbnaudio, yes you make them, and they do look impressive; but "Live Sound"? No offense, but I doubt it. I don't want to derail what could be a very interesting discussion by bringing up the issue of the appropriateness of using a thread like this to tout one's wares, but I would have been a lot less sensitive to and critical of your unabashed sales pitch if you had offered some kind of substantive and relevant commentary as well. How does your design differ from so many like it, that also strive for "Live Sound"?"

I have not heard those speakers so I cannot say how they sound, however I think the design principles evident in the photos alone would lend these well to the task at hand in that they are large and use larger multiple drivers in a symmetrical pattern that I would expect to help in regards to overall coherency and imaging accuracy with a large multi-driver design.

I've seen some Daedalus speakers with similar design characteristics and have heard a lot of very good things about those.

So I think at least the evident design approach is smart and I would not discount PBNs claims right out of the shoot anyhow based on that, but of course the proof is always in teh listening....

Pbn,

Personally I think it great that vendors participate in teh forums as long as they are forthright about it which you were.

Hopefully audiogon gets past the malaise that the very poorly conceived and executed recent "big bang" site upgrade seemingly created.

In order to compare apples/apples live/in-house, ie just how the music sounds, it helps to close your eyes, and just listen. After all stereos only reproduce sound, not all the other things mentioned FBOFW at a live concert.

Hey, sitting here listening to a live recording of Black Sabbath, i have no
problem with not actually being there, at least with my eyes closed.

It's really kinda silly some of the things we audio kooks might sweat about.

There are certain parts of the sound spectrum (upper mid range I believe) that human ears, particularly male, are more sensitive to. Distortion that occurs in this range is of most significance towards a pleasant listening experience.

Thanks to evolution and natural selection, this range also happens to correspond to that of the female human voice. Apparently, someone out there wants us guys to respond when our wive's are calling. Strange, but true.....:-)

See This interactive chart for more details.

Because of their transmission line frequency dependant manner of sound wave propogation via wave bending, good walsh drivers might have a design advantage when it comes to delivering percussion dynamics at certain frequencies with minimal effect on others resulting in less distortion in that different freqencies leave the cone at different locations unlike a conventional dynamic driver. My ohms are scary good with percussion and dynamics when the recording presents a challenge.

DUke, thanks for that.

I generally find your posts some of the most informative and best thought out on A'gon. I have never heard your speakers, but they are very high up on my want to hear list!