Help - amplifier matching problems

I own a pair of Aerial 7Bs and am using a BAT VK-30 as a pre-amp, a Theta Miles CD player and a Classe CA-100 amp (100wpc into 8). I love the sound except for the bass, which is a bit fat and not taught enough. Thinking that I needed more power, I purchased a Krell KAV-250a (250wps into 8). After letting the Krell burn in for 100 hours, I did a side by side. The results, I miss the Classe midrange. The Krell clearly controls the bass, does not have that "tube" coloration and is much more powerful. However, it sounds cold and I believe the soundstage dramatically disappears. Can anyone suggest a good match, or should I keep the Classe and get more efficient speakers? Thanks in advance.
A Classe ca300 is a good match for these speakers. Your ca100 is just not enough power.
Why not find a BAT VK-500 amps? It should do the trick extremely well.
Why don't you bi-amp using the Krell for bass and the Classe for the midrange and tweeter?? I would think that would provide great bass and sweet midrange/treble performance.
Jtinn, it has been brought to the attention of more than a few folks that you have a tendency to post & recommend brand names of products that you sell in your store. We've also noticed that YOU have never mentioned that you are indeed an "audio professional". As such, we think that most audiophiles and consumers would consider this offensive and self serving. The fact that you've used the Audiogon discussion forums as an advertising campaign without making your affiliations clear says more about your ethics ( or lack of them ) than we ever could.

The fact that you've been a "cheerleader" for a few other brands that you carry on a somewhat regular basis can only help you and your store. We state this in terms of increasing public awareness of those products and the increased demand for them due to brand name recognition and the amount of recommendations that they get. The funny thing is that you yourself are doing the recommendations, putting those product names in the limelight and creating the increased demand for them. We can see how one would find this type of "free advertising" quite convenient even it it lacked both tact and ethics.

Potential customers and forum readers should be made aware that Jtinn is indeed involved in selling / marketing / representing specific products and as such, might be construed as biased towards these products. At the same time, Jtinn might also tend to steer folks from another make / model that he doesn't sell in his stores. While many view his input as being "fair" yet "unbiased", you need to better understand where he is coming from. That is, you might have thought that they were "fair" until you knew about his "bias" and affiliations. That could put a whole different slant on how his recommendations are / were received.

We consider it a shame that someone that could have been considered a very friendly and helpful dealer might now be considered a "manipulative rat" with something to hide. Rather than be up-front about one's affiliations to begin with, they might now come across as someone that was trying to manipulate the market to their advantage. Too bad they didn't do the right thing to begin with as all of this would have been avoided. Sean

PS... You and your partner were given fair warning in the thread regarding "ethics" and business professionals.
Sell the Krell and get another Classe CA-100 and bi-amp the speakers. With the rest of the money get a good set of speaker cables, Harmonic Tech maybe. I promise you will thank me.
I think Sean has a legitimate point, but makes too much of it. Commercial affiliations should be disclosed, but it is also true that every one of us has biases and makes recommendations based on what we prefer. I assume that one of the primary reasons that jtinn sells BAT (assuming that in fact he (she?) does) is because he prefers it to other brands that he might sell. We all do the same thing with respect to the equipment we prefer to buy or recommend.

But to the point: Aeriels need lots of current. I like the biamping with another CA 100; that offers good value. I also think that a much bigger Classe might be a solution. I drive 10T's with SimAudio (damping factor >800) and the Aeriels are very taught and punchy. Frankly, I also like the BAT idea, especially as I have a vague recollection of JA expressing some concern about impedence matching with BAT, but I think that was in connection with one of the tube amps. Sorry for the vague reference, but worth a bit of checking.
If you still have both amps,I would second the bi-amp trick,I also agree with Sean,good luck,Bob
Individual members or non-members MAY be biased, that is true. I think that most people will recommend products that they personally like or know others that have had positive experiences with. After all, that would only be natural.

On the other hand, how many dealers have you ever dealt with that:
A) do NOT badmouth other manufacturers product lines that they don't carry
B) do NOT try to steer you towards products that they carry even if you are interested in something different
C) would enthusiastically recommend products that they don't carry ?

A dealer is obviously motivated to sell you his products so that he can make the money. While i know dealers that are exceptions to these generalizations, i'm not going to turn this into a plug for them. Needless to say, they are FAR and few between.

The difference in this situation, even if a non-dealer and a dealer make biased recommendations, is that the non-dealer does so without any outside motives other than love or enjoyment of the product. They have nothing to gain. Nor have they ever hidden the fact that they could directly and / or indirectly profit from such recommendations. Having someone that stands to profit from "name dropping" continually do so shows a lack of ethics or morals to me. The fact that they have done that while trying to keep their affiliations as quiet as possible verifies that they have / had something to hide. It might also tell you that they knew that what they were doing was wrong yet continued to do so to the benefit of their wallet.

The fact that Jtinn has consistently thrown out brands of products that he carries begins to look sinister once you know his affiliations. The fact that he has even STARTED threads of praise and support for specific product lines that he carries ( do a forum search for Tenor ) clearly shows that he has abused the trust of forum participants and readers.

I see this situation as being FAR more "provable" than the claims that Brian at Hello was stacking the deck in terms of positive feedback. At the same time, i don't see people jumping up and down about ethics, being misled, outside motivations, etc. Is it because Jtinn has always come across as being "helpful" and Brian is sometimes very tough to deal with ? Probably.

On the other hand, Brian aka Hello, who has contributed to these forums with his honest opinion and always identified himself as a dealer, may or may not have stacked the deck in his own favor. We don't know either way for sure. We DO know that Jtinn has "stacked the deck" in a very public manner time and time again.

To further prove this point, i ask ALL of the regulars that post / read here to confirm that they knew Jtinn was a dealer or had professional business affiliations in the audio field. If you did know, how long ago did you find out and how ? If he was forthright about his affiliations, EVERYBODY here should have known he was a dealer. After all, he has made hundreds of posts.

A similar situation arose over at AA pertaining to an official from Plinius doing something similar. This to me is nothing less than "shillery" and needs to be identified and stopped. I hope that i'm not alone in my thoughts and feelings on this.

To set the record straight, i have never dealt with Jtinn, have no hard feelings towards Jtinn nor do i know anyone that has been "ripped off" by Jtinn. He simply happened to be the first dealer posting without identifying himself that was pointed out to me. The more that i researched the subject, the more "tainted" i could see his recommendatins being. As such, i felt that others should be made aware of such activity.

The fact that "TomThompson" responded negatively to the thread on ethics that i started also brings up another question. If you visit Jtinn's website, you'll find the names of "Thompson & Tinn" displayed for all to see. It is anyone's guess if this is the same person that i think it might be. If it is, you could understand why they would react negatively. The fact that their website is now "down and out" only leads to further shadows being cast on the subject. Otherwise, you would be able to see exacly what brands Jtinn is selling and has continued to promote. Sean
Right on Sean!

I have been visiting Audigon forums daily for over three months. I had no idea that Jtinn was a dealer or connected to audio in any way.

To me, the average Joe, it is apalling for anyone involved in selling audio products not disclose their affiliations if they post on these boards.

Ethics are important. It is just a shame that some people put the "almighty dollar" ahead of their ethics.
Try a pass labs x-1 or x-2 preamp, tube-like w/o tubes. Then upgrade to a pass labs x-150 or 250.
I agree that it is highly unethical for Jtinn NOT to disclose his business interest in certain products. It is one thing for him to steer potential buyers within his store, where his biases are obvious, but another matter altogether when it is done in the anonymity of the web I do not agree, however, that the personal preferences of individuals without such commercial interests are in any way comparable. I assume that such choices were instead made after careful listening to a variety of competing components, getting recommendations from friends, and perhaps reading reviews (although many "critics" are hardly free from commercial influence). The investment represented by an informed purchase simply is not the same thing as the motivation to make a buck!
Sean: This sounds more like a personal witch hunt you are on than anything else. You are attempting to gather up a lynch mob and create hate. You need to find a better use of your time. What is with all this "WE" stuff in the "ethics" thread?

I have been on Audiogon for at least as long as you have and most of that time has been ONLY as a user. I just recently got "INTO" the business and your accusations are insulting and childish. If you were "ETHICAL" and had any questions, you could have directed them privately to me and I certainly would have answered any of your questions with absolute honesty. I think you are enjoying the "spotlight" with your poor "detective work" and I certainly question your motives.

I do recommend products that I am affiliated with, but I also recommend other products that I feel deserve it that I do not sell. I am extremely passionate about the products that I carry as well as those I do not and have chosen those I carry very carefully, for one reason... they are worthy. I listen to more products than most people get to hear and have had more equipment through my listening room than most reviewers get to evaluate. I do not consider myself the most technically knowledgable person, but I do have what many consider to be a good ear. I call it the way I hear it, whether I sell it or not.

Most people who sell something on Audiogon are generally getting rid of it because they either do not like it, or have heard something better. If it were not so, wouldn't they keep it? Are their ethics in question when they state how good it is in their ads? Who are you to point a finger? Maybe we should look at you with a microscope and make unfounded accusations based on immediate appearances.

Most people know that I do have an affiliation and have no problem with my statements here. You used the terms "We", quite freely in the "ethics" thread. Are you the self appointment voice of the impoverished here on Audiogon? Ever hear of Joseph McCarthy?

I think you have blown this totally out of proportion and should rethink your accusations. It is very irresponsible. Your reference to me personally as a "manipulative rat" on the other thread, certainly shows your true colors and should agin have people questioning your motives.


1. My "Tenor thread" started before my affiliation with them.

2. I have no idea who TomThompson is and your accusation is false. Maybe you should investigate that further with Audiogon before you cast aspersions.

3. My affiliation with "Chambers Audio" came after I built a website for Jim and long after I bought quite a bit of equipment from him.

4. Do not flatter yourself as far as the website being down. There is an OS change being done and that is all. It will be back up this afternoon.

6. I do not sell anything to anyone I do not like or cannot become friends with. I am unlike any dealer you have ever met or dealt with. My customers are my friends first and customers second.

5. I am in this for the love of audio. I have enough money from other ventures that keeps this purely a fun hobby and a way for me to stay closer to my passion. If I do not "sell" any product this year, it does not effect me in any way. I am proud of what I do and make no apologies to anyone about it, other than if it caused anyone grief, which I seriously doubt.

You have detracted from this site with your pettiness and poor attempts at "destroying" me and my reputation. I am sure this is not the type of thing that the creators of Audiogon had in mind when they created these forums.

Sean, I have read your threads for quite sometime and although I do not agree with you all the time, you had my respect. Certainly you have lost that.
We have allowed this thread to continue for a bit, so that all effected parties may present their arguments/opinions regarding the disclosure of any financial interests in relevant products/companies. Audiogon's position regarding this type of situation has been posted in the thread that focuses on this particular issue, viewable at:

This thread will now be limited to answers to the original question, and some of the posts may be removed in a few days.
I own the Classe CA300, and it's a real powerhouse. Very solid bass, yet retains that smooth, liquid Classe signature sound. I've seen Classe paired with Ariel in several stores, so apparently this is a common match.

My recommendation: Keep the Ariels and get a larger Classe amp. The best Classe products seem to be their large amps.
One Classe Ca 200 is better then two CA 100's. If you can swing it get the 300 or the 400.
Thank you all for your help. I apologize about inciting ethics arguments. I am selling the Krell (anyone interested I posted it on the Audiogon site) and will look to purchase a larger Classe or BAT. Best regards.