Have a Gingko under my Scout, it is quieter and cleaner than anything else I have tried (BDRacing, Myrtlewoods, Bright Star air and sandbox, etc etc).
I love the Gingko and highly recommend it, however, I have not tried the Aurios.
Why do you wish to add some isolation?
Consider the following possibilities:
o There are 3 sources of vibration, floor-borne, air-borne, and internally generated.
o One of these sources induces far more sonic harm than the other two.
o Vibrations are captured (by a component) in a moment in time.
o When trapped vibrations can only dissipate over a period of time.
o Vibration (like electricity) is always seeking ground.
o Any physicist worth his weight will tell you it is physically impossible to isolate anything from vibration.
Now assume for the moment that the most harmful vibrations are air-borne and you 'add some isolation' under your components. Where do you suppose the air-borne vibrations captured by your component will go if the component is 'isolated'?
Before this thread goes down a rabbit hole, let me add the Gingko is an essential upgrade to the Scout. Made a profound difference for me.
I am not able to debate physics with you. I am only seeking better sound.
The Scout sits on the top shelf of a Premiere audio rack I purchased in 1999 for about $180...certainly not intended to support a $2000 turntable I purchased only 6 months ago. The construction of the rack is steel with three quarter or one inch mdf shelves that rest on the steel framing, supported at each corner. Picture a steel frame with triangular pieces of metal welded at the inside of each corner. That's what supports each shelf in the rack.
My listening room is at ground level, i.e on carpet on concrete and not prone to floor vibrations.
I am happy with the turntable/cartridge combination but if there is a way to get better sound without spending thousands, that is what I am seeking.
Sorry, Kmulkey, I did not intend to come across as confrontational and yes I assumed you posted your thread because you were interested in performance gains. That's why I responded. And FWIW, I am not able to debate physics with you either.
I was simply sharing an alternate point-of-view to consider and obviously it's a view that is not well-known and often times not warmly received. But I've spent quite some time learning these basics through much R&D and simply wanted to share some of those findings.
The answer to my question in my previous post is, the vibrations remain trapped inside the component.
This may not sound like much to do about anything but if you've ever found yourself in your car at a stoplight with some guy's subwoofer 2 cars back wreaking havoc on of your sternum and your car, you should have some idea the havoc air-borne vibrations trapped within can do since your car is not much different from an over-sized component.
Vinh Vu of Gingko Audio here. The original question was about Gingko Cloud platform versus pucks, which I interpret to be footers made of some material.
We performed vibration tests in designing our Cloud platforms and the results are published on our website. Through these tests, we proved that our platforms do a great job in reducing vibration in the critical frequency range affecting TTs, CD players, etc. We also conducted A/B listening tests of identical components such CD players playing identical CDs in real time, one on the platform and one not. We even did these tests in real time at shows such as the 2004 Montreal FSI, where 89% of the respondents heard a significant and consistent difference between 2 identical CD players, with and without the Cloud. Our live demos have been well reported by the audio press. Most importantly, we give a 30-day money back guarantee (you pay shipping) so you can just try it for yourself.
Any theory about vibration should be backed up by empirical data done with proper test instruments and procedures and we have done that in comparing our own products and others. We are confident that our design is sound and effective.
Feel free to contact me through our website with specific questions.
No, I did not take it as confrontational...just beyond my grasp I guess. To summarize, are you saying there's nothing that can be done with vibration/resonance/better isolation or that it's really not a big deal? I ask this sincerely as I have never delved too deeply into the minutiae of audio until recently.
Decoupling platforms make a significant improvement with an unsprung TT like the Scout, even when the TT is solidly sited on a cement floor or on a wall mount. The only hypothesis I can think of to explain why a decoupling platform helps in these instances, is that in addition to decoupling from external room vibrations, the plaform acts to transfer internal vibration from stylus, plinth & motor into benign LF motion. There are probably very few hard-composition platforms that don't reflect internally generated vibration back into the TT. I suggest trying $50 worth of McMaster Carr springs under the Scout in the manner of my DIY plaform. I can think of no decoupling system other than springs with the ability to discharge energy as benign LF oscillations. Even air bladders cannot achieve this.
I know a Scout owner who successfully used a spring platform with his TT on a wall mount, and an AC Raven owner who noted improvement even on solid cement floors. The problem with this approach is it's too cheap for audiophiles to take seriously, and it isn't as aethetically satisfying as splitting hairs over the properties of exotic hardwoods.
"No, I did not take it as confrontational...just beyond my grasp I guess."
As you can see, Kmulkey, you are not alone.
To answer your question, I am not saying there is nothing that can be done. In fact, I'm saying just the opposite.
And though kitty litter, tennis balls, hand balls, hockey pucks, bicycle inner-tubes, air bladders, beach sand, sorbathane, etc. all have their place in life, there's a few of us coming from a different perspective who in good conscience could never recommend such materials for high-end audio.
I checked out your web site, Vinh Vu. I can see you've enjoyed much success. Congratulations.
For what it's worth, mine is also on cement floor. I was really surprised at the improvement.
i know i'm rather late in this discussion, but i just had to chime in and include my impressions: i recently acquired a set of gingko audio cloud 10' that i'm using under my vpi scout (see my virtual system) it definitely made quite a significant improvement in low level detail and bass definition; soundstage also became more expansive. it was not subtle. i am not exaggerating; thanks to vtvu! -e
my father installed a Ginko under his Scoutmaster 3 weeks ago and it tightened things up tho a new cart was installed at same time but I sincerly believe it made a nice improvement.
I have used BDR since 1995 with great results, the ultimate isolation I have found is; BDR cones, pucks, black holes etc. a shelf or source, with Aurios Pro-max isolation bearings,IN THAT ORDER. I started out with adding some cones, then more cones, a shelf, then another shelf. Start out with a few sets of cones, they work under any price equipment, except Wadia. Generally the better the equipment, the better the results.
Kmulkey, I have been using a Gingko Cloud 11 under my Scout for several years and it sounds great. I have no complaints about it at all. I think that you would be very satisfied with a Cloud.
Stehno is the perfect example why subjectivist suck. They suck any joy and fun out of this hobby and totally faith in measuring equipment that can't come close to equalling the human ear. You put your record player on a Gingko platform and you hear the difference. You don't need a scientific journal to tell you what you hear with your own ears.
Opps, I mean objectivist. Any way the Gingko is awesome. I use Minis on top of a maple block. Also cars have shock absorbers for a reason.
I have a suspended hardwood floor in my listening room. My Space 294 turntable sits on a lead filled rack. Before, I had to be careful walking around as foot falls near the rack could cause it to skip. A Ginkgo Cloud 11 under the turntable fixed that. I can walk around the room without it skipping, and it did not suck any life out of the music. High marks to Vinh.