EML 300B vs Shuguang Treasure 300B.
Comments from those who've compared these two in their system?
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Addendum:
What about this Genalex Gold Lion PX300B tube?
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I think most of these current productions have reliability issues; KR. EAT,... even Sophia from personal experience. I also have a hard time believing those reviews that praise the much cheaper versions as much as those who can't accept the gushing over NOS WE. One can only audition for themselves, in their system, to know for sure. Its very subjective. I just didn't want to do that at this time. Difficult decision. I may go with Sophia. KR's handling of customers worries me. |
I forgot about Emission Labs. I recall good things. I'm skeptical of the Shunguag(?) and most others in the $100-$200 range. It's not much to spend but can quickly add up from disappointing trials. One prerequisite is the tube be made to WE 300B specs. Not all 300B's are direct replacements and each 300B amp design varies. This could be the cause of failure for some customers 300B's. |
Charles1dad: The TRON/Horning combo was incredible. My favorite and best I've heard in 20 yrs of high-end audio. I'm not trying to replace the Horning speakers (that would be extremely difficult). I am simply downgrading due to financial woes. Considering a few options. I'll let you know (check out my other thread).
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Charles1dad: No disrespect intended. I was only generally commenting on cheaper 300B production. I may in deed enjoy the sound of the Shuguang Treasure Series 300B. I just have a predilection for the original; NOS WE. And I haven't heard any other 300B either. I would have liked to, but once I had those vintage beauties in place there was no reason to disturb the sound. Maybe it was $$$ bias since they cost so much. But the overall system sound was glorious. Now I'm only trying to narrow down my choices and hopefully come away with one that satisfies both my senses and budget.
I'll always be very skeptical when it comes to the cheap vacuum tube versions, or when manufacturers insist you use theirs, compared to NOS.
I won't be buying the KR WE Clone because of the reliability/warranty issues, even though it technically should be a perfect match for my SET monos and thus warrantied. That's unfortunate, although their position of denying warranty to some customers is understandable. It's designed to certain specs (matched to their amps) and other amp designs may not be compatible, hence the premature failure. Tube makers don't like to mention this fact because they want you to use their tubes, but you need to check specs before rolling ahead, especially with NOS, and making sure it is a proper variant. I haven't run into any issues so far but I've had a few NOS and current production tubes fail before their time. Not bad though when compared to how many tubes I've had and hrs used.
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Who sells the Shuguang Treasure Series? Is there a manufacturer website? And what about the Genelax Gold Lion PX300B?
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Is Shuguang Treasure Grade B ok? Reading the description they sound defective. $395 from Grant Fidelity. $510 for Grade A.
My interest in this tube is growing as I'm not feeling Sophia at the moment (failed 274B) and would like to give another brand a try.
EAT is too expensive. KR WE Clone is available for just over $500, but I don't want to be disappointed if it fails and lose $$. And the EML 300B is $493. I'm not paying any more then that for these tubes. I'd rather pick up half used NOS WE.
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Afc: Don't take offense. I was being facetious about the Shuguang Treasure Grade B being defective. I realize they're not. But the way the description is worded it comes off that way.
What other 300B's ave you listened to? Have you heard vintage NOS WE? And thanks for the buying tips.
At this point I'm leaning toward either EML or Shuguang Treasure.
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300B comments from tube gear designer;
"I supply my new amps with basic/standard 300B's (Chinese/Russian) as I know customers will want to change them in the future. I only offer Emission Labs tubes as a priced option. On the top end gear I use Emission Labs - they might not be the best sounding but they are very robust, are extremely reliable, also sound very good and they look good too..... I have not heard the carbon plate or Shuguang Treasure as they do not look like a 300B and are only clones - These should really be called by a new name and not a 300B because they are not a 300B. Also I don't like using anything from China. "
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Afc: That is a ridiculous. I paid about half that for NOS/NIB '49/'50 matched pair. I would buy used, even current production. |
Who has the best price for EML 300B?
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Tvad: I'm sorry. I'll buy the cheaper 300B tubes.
Fyi, I wasn't looking at the $650 EML 300B XLS. |
Phaelon: I'm looking at the EML 300B.
I want 300B tubes that are as close to the original - WE. None of this Super Sized Globe Mesh XLS...... This is why so many 300B tubes fail - they're not compatible contrary to manufactures claims.
I'm well aware what my SET monoblocks need. I had NOS WE and they were sweeeeet. But I'm on a tight budget now. I'd gladly pick up used NOS WE, or even used or new current production but there's none to be found. I'm not paying $2K for latest WE production.
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I've decided to buy EML 300B ($495). I've only found two dealers in US (East and West Coast). Is that it? |
Rgurney: Correct. The mesh plate wouldn't match amp design/circuitry. That's most likely why so many 300B's fail - not matched for amps.
Phaelon: Hopefully I can recall what the NOS WE sounded like. It's been a few months, plus I'll have new speakers. I think the EML 300B will be satisfying enough based on feedback. It looks good too (resembles WE more then others). In the end all that matters is whether or not I enjoy the sound from my system.
I would have tried the Shuguang Treasure but timing and shipping from Canada.... plus they didn't have Grade A in stock. Considered Grade B ($375). That's how much I'd like to pay for these 300B knock-offs. I almost bought current WE production but the asking prices are ridiculous. I'd rather buy used NOS.
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What's going on with Tube Audio Store/RAM Labs? Has anyone ordered from them lately? Placed order online for EML 300B and received invoice, but no reply to email (one address undeliverable) and no one answer phone (msg only about moving....?). Wonderful.
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Thanks for the Shuguang Treasure source. Much lower prices. Grade B?
TubesUSA is East Coast and PayPal only, but I may end up having to order from them.
Ordering imported tubes always seems to be an issue.
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Well, I've come full circle and purchasing the Sophia SET Princess Carbon Plate. I had placed an order for the EML 300B but Tube Audio Store didn't have stock. So reluctantly (explanation coming...), I tried ordering from the only other US dealer; George Lenz at TubesUSA. I soon gave up on that. He has these extra fees/charges (PayPal higher then 3%, packing material costs,..) and he's very evasive with any questions. It's no wonder he has stock - no one buys from him. Arrogant, rude. Don't buy from TubesUSA. That forced me to rethink which tube to use, but after speaking with my amps dealer, who felt the Sophia was better then the EML, I took his advice.
Charles1dad: I was being sarcastic with Tvad.
Rodman99999: Too much.
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Tvad: Seriously. Enough already. It's relative. You don't know me or my situation. Take your righteous crusade somewhere else. And please get your facts straight; they were $450, not $525. I tried to find used ones.
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Gsm18439: RAM Labs and Tube Audio Store are one in the same. There are only two EML US dealers I am aware of.
Phaelon: I think you'll be satisfied. I'm confident I will based on my dealers insight. I used Sophia 274B in the past and they were very impressive, even against some revered 40's/50's NOS 5U4G's.
I'm sure the EML, KR, and EAT have something to offer as well. I read some very positive comments in the past about the EAT 300B. Just beware of tube specs/amp compatibility.
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Update: It's still early to judge, but I like what I'm hearing. I thought I would. Only one problem; there was a noise issue with one tube so Sophia generously replaced with a free upgrade to the ceramic base. And unfortunately to my astonishment that pair seems to have an issue also (one channel is louder then the other, or possibly the other is lower in volume). All I know is that the loudness is unbalanced between L&R channels and it follows the tube when switching between monoblocks. Sophia wants me to give it 100 hrs and hear if it changes. Otherwise, replacement #2. |
My amps have no manual bias control. Did you order the Black or Ceramic base?
I want to add that Sue at Sophia has been most gracious and accommodating. If this were KR or another I think the situation would be quite the opposite. ;-) |
I don't have experience with KR 300B but I think there's enough customer complaints to support my little jab at them. I'm sure it's a good tube and I might even try it sometime given the experience so far with Sophia (I thought they made their own, or at least separate production at a factory). Maybe I should have bought KR, or EML as I'd originally planned, but the Sophia was based on my amps dealers personal experience with both EML and Sophia. He didn't care for Sophia years back but found the latter production to sound better then EML. The amp designer hates Chinese tubes, only recommending NOS WE, otherwise EML is used/supplied. Most customers buy NOS WE. I feel the same way with current Chinese tubes, also Russian made. But I have no other choice if I can't afford NOS WE. I seriously regret selling them. Now I'm considering returning the Sophia because of the issues and trying EML or KR. Maybe I should have just got the Shuguang Treasures. There's no way to know for certain what will work or be reliable until you try one no matter how many opinions are offered.
Is the Svetlana 300B still in production?
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Sophia doesn't offer refund.
Looks like I'm stuck with ceramic base.
Who sells the Svetlana 300B? I can't find it, not even on their website. I've heard of AVVT but not familiar with tubes.
Fact is, none of these current 300B's are real (WE) 300B designs, nor can they be. Different time, manufacturing process, materials, design. There wasn't carbon/mesh-plate, globes, XLS,..etc. This is why many customers experience premature failure with their tubes because they don't match the amp. They want extra power, giant globes,..etc and end up burning them out due to incompatibility. I want the closest thing to WE 300B w/o all the glitz. |
I agree. The right thing to do is offer customer choice of refund or another replacement. Sophia has been more helpful then most though, but still no excuse. This experience makes me reconsider EML, KR, and Shuguang Treasure. It's a gamble with any current production tube, especially power tubes in my experience. I've had better reliability from 1940's-1950's NOS tubes. And as mentioned before; I can't afford NOS WE 300B now. Had to sell my pair to help get by. |
Third pair is the charm... so far. I can't comment on the sound at this time because I'm still sorting out which music server to use.
I think the first pair may have been fine but I can't be certain. I replaced another tube along with the Sophia 300B pair and everything sounds stable now. But the second pair definitely had an issue with one tube being at a much lower volume (stayed with tube when swapped between mono blocks).
I just noticed that $1200 Royal Princess. Everyone wants in on the high-priced 300B tube market. Each brand trying to out do the other. The EAT 300B is also $1200. Wasn't the VIAC AVVT also? |
Rgurney: NOS or current production WE 300B? And EML,..etc are less then half the cost of Royal Princess so I hope it's twice as good sounding. I would have tried the EML and KR were it not for Sophia Carbon. Still may some time in the future. |
My 300B journey has come to an end. I've since moved on to a new soundscape - F2A11. |
Maxmad & Charles1dad: Yes, the Thoress F2A11 integrated.
It's too early to judge the stereo amp, and my system is still being completed, dialed in, but so far the sound is very musical and satisfying. I finally tracked down a NOS 1945 Tung-Sol Black Round Plate/Bottle 12SN7GT and awaiting it's arrival. I'm eager to hear the result. It should provide some positive sonic improvements. The 6SN7 of the same is my one of my top two favorite (Ken-Rad being the other). I was also trying to find some earlier NOS F2A11 (black plates, non-perforated metal base...) but it's proving to be difficult. Otherwise, I think this amp will be a joy to listen to. It already is. Not the Tron Cantata of course, but nonetheless a highly pleasurable listening experience, one that'll only get better once the system is finished. No more 300B for me. I'm kind of glad. hard to choose and expensive. Btw, I also have the Thoress FR20CD mkIII speakers. |
Charles1dad : Now you can admire Thoress. ;-) They are of a high caliber design, especially the F2A11. Love the early retro design homage. And I'm not bashing the 300B at all. One of my favorite sounding tubes thus far (I actually wanted the Thoress 300B mono's). But there's much to explore with other power tubes and the F2A11 casts a very musical presence overall.
Maxmad: That's where I found the 12SN7. Where did you see Siemens F2A11 (at SND)? |
