On another subject. Even though clocking and buffering before the dac, only for the dac to redo it all, makes absolutely no sense to me, new GAIA on the way. |
I’ve been listening several nights now while changing formats both upsampling and native. I haven’t been able to get the distortion to appear. Guess I’ll just enjoy the music for now and see what happens.
I’m with the others on the DSD vs PCM. PCM is why R2R exists. As I said in a prior post, I prefer it to both native and upsampled DSD. I may actually prefer native DSD “downsampled” to PCM. Not sure if that is a hit on the DACs Sigma Delta/FPGA or a compliment to its R2R. Most likely it’s the R2R is that good. None the less, I still tend to listen to DSD in native format for “fear of missing out“.
There is a caveat to my preference that I mentioned in a prior post. The level changes dramatically when I shift between DSD and PCM. DSD being much softer. I do try to adjust for this using the volume control, but it does make a direct comparison difficult. Is there a setting in Roon that can help equalize the difference so I can get better results?
As for upsampling in roon vs over sampling through the DAC I find myself slightly gravitating to leaving oversampling to the DAC. It’s a close call. I also experimented with using both simultaneously—the thought being to share the load so neither is working as hard. However, oversampling twice equals two sets of filtering which bothers me so I only use one or the other.
Curious, Anyone know what rate the Terminator oversamples to? Is it a multiple of the source? Knowing may help me help me with some more trials.
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Hi jjss.
Was just doing a comparison of Anne Bisson’s all analog Direct to Disk “Four Seasons in Jazz” record (If you have a good vinyl rig you need to buy this album. Limited run of 3000 and getting close to the end—can buy direct from her website) vs Tidal redbook on my Terminator.
I’m using a Rega RP10 with Aphelion MC cart and LKV phono section. All playing through ML523 pre and 536 monos feeding 802D3s. They compare favorably with an edge to the Termi. Probably the last descriptor I would use would be “bright/less weight”.(I used to use an Oppo 205. That’s exactly how I would describe it, bright/less weight.)
Like most equipment, Terminators do have their critics, but I’ve never seen it described quite like that.
Curious, how extensive was your time with the terminator? Do you know if it had the new board? Any idea about the source and source settings? What was the associated equipment? Did you have a chance to compare it directly with another dac?
Always eager to hear a counter view and welcome!
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Thanks again David. Of course, it has to be an intermittent problem. The most difficult to resolve. Might not happen again for another week, might happen twice tonight. Very difficult to troubleshoot unless you can monitor 24 seven for days if not weeks.
When I bought it, the new board had just gone up for sale, I asked Alvin about it prior to purchase and he said mine would ship with the latest. I was not aware that there were three boards as you said. Any approximate timeline on when the second came out? |
New D/D converters.
I am toying with the idea of purchasing a GAIA to pair with my Terminator. (Have some other issues to resolve with the Terminator first, see above posts).
Looking at the Terminator’s block diagram it appears the signal from I2S inputs (coming from the GAIA) is buffered and reclocked again by the Terminators FIFO. Is this correct? Am I reading the diagram correctly?
If so, it seems that most, if not all, the magic of the $2000-ish GAIA’s OCXO clock is for naught if the DAC is basically going to buffer the “perfectly” timed bits then assign its own timing through a “lesser clock” before sending them on their way.
I’ve seen some anecdotal proclamations that it sounds wonderful. Doesn’t seem to jive with the science. I’m fairly new to all this so please educate me. With the science part preferably. Opinions and individual experiences are valuable, but not what I’m after here.
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Terminator update.
First, the not so good: In an earlier post I stated I had sent the unit back for transformer hum. I’ve seen at least one other posting regarding the same. There was still a very slight hum when returned to me. I agree with the prior poster that this really is not acceptable for a flagship product. However, I bought an Emotiva CMX2 DC offset blocker which cured the hum. (There are few, even very expensive, power conditioners designed to eliminate DC offset). Apparently there is some degree of DC offset on my power lines, but the Denafrips was the only component not able to cope with it as nothing else in my system has any transformer hum. One more box to contend with in my system, fortunately I have room to hide it. Something to think about.
As for the sound, for the most part it is amazing! With PCM it’s detailed yet warm with stunning holographic imaging. But...On occasion there is static and a hissing sound similar to what you might experience with extreme clocking/jitter issue. Restarting play usually cures it. I am not sure if this is an issue with the Denafrips or Roon software or my nucleus+. Not quite sure how to trouble shoot that one. Any suggestions are welcome. The fact that it happens, even occasionally, haunts me... “is it happening now at a less audible level? Is the sound right? Could it be better? Is the DAC broken?“ Sometimes the music seems better than others even when I don’t hear the hiss. Just in my head???
As for DSD vs PCM. It’s hard to A/B it by upsampling. When I upsample PCM to DSD the level drops considerably which has a dramatic affect on perceived sound quality. (The opposite happens if I downsample a DSD file to PCM—the level increases) Again, I am not sure if this is a function of the DAC or the Roon software. I have tried to correct for this by adjusting the volume, but don’t seem to be able to get it just right. My very rough impression is the DSD soundstage seems ever so slightly more compressed with less detail. In fact, I have taken to down sampling some DSD material to PCM. On the surface this makes sense, as the magic in the DAC is the R2R where PCM shines. |
Thanks David. I haven’t addressed the hiss issue with Alvin yet. It is intermittent, but usually happens at least once a listening session and resets easily. At first I was just thinking this is part of digital audio, but lately I’m starting to think otherwise. Maybe I will contact him.
It typically happens when switching to a new album at a different sample rate. Not 100% sure that it hasn’t happened at other times, I need to evaluate this more closely.
The only digital source I have is my nucleus+ and no other way to feed it besides USB.
As for the board, it had the latest version when I purchased it last November. I don’t think there has been an update since then, has there? Is there a post that shows what the newest board looks like so I can take a look inside? |
are you by any chance using HQPlayer or the upsampling capabilities within Roon? I am streaming mostly through Qubus and Tidal. A few downloads also. I’ve been experimenting a lot with up sampling through Roon, sometimes I use it and sometimes I don’t. I have not been paying enough attention to make the connection between upsampling and the hiss. It is so random and intermittent that it will take me a while to check these things. |
Thanks Luis. Not sure I would describe the effect the same but possibly the same parameters. A very distinct and loud distortion and hiss. Definitely goes away if I change content or restart the play. I actually was not aware of the firmware updates. I’m guessing it’s going to have to be done with a Windows computer which I don’t have. All Mac and Apple here. Will look into it. Thanks |
No consternation! Just happened to be listening to my Termi when I saw your post. I had never thought of it in those terms. When I had it playing exact same track side by side with my vinyl rig the Termi beat it in both those areas so my curiosity was piqued. I love hearing other perspectives on all equipment. I’ve never heard the Dave, so it’s interesting to hear your thoughts. Still curious, any idea if his Termi was the latest model or has new board? What was the source?
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Thanks for suggestion, but I believe the Transformer and power supply is buried in a separate box under the main board...big disassembly job. Wouldn’t want to void warranty either. At least we’ll get an idea how warranty work is handled. May be informative for future buyers. |
New Terminator...
I was looking forward to posting a review of my newly arrived Terminator. Unfortunately, upon plugging it in there was a terrible transformer hum. I went no further, made no other connections. Back in the box. Emailed Alvin. Waiting to hear back
After waiting weeks and sitting all day waiting for delivery, such a disappointment. Now I have to box it up, and go through the return rigmarole. Not to mention the added wait for it to get shipped back and forth.
I’m hoping for a new replacement or possibly a refund. Somehow it doesn’t seem right to have a brand new $5K unit you haven’t even listened to in for repairs....makes it seem like a refurb.
Surprised the unit was sent in this condition. The hum cannot be missed. Supposedly they burn these in for 100 hours prior…(before anyone asks, it’s not the mains. I have two other dacs and tens of thousands of dollars of other equipment. Nothing else hums. Newer house, great utilities.Two separate lines in the room. The dac was completely isolated. Nothing else was plugged into it whatsoever)
Sorry to vent, still fresh. Frustrated and disappointed. Will keep you updated. |
Replacement on Terminator on the way! |
Alvin got right back to me!
He asked some questions about the AC power and lines in my home and suggested some troubleshooting of the mains. Definitely the right place to start.
After ascertaining the problem was not with the AC mains he offered to ship a new unit!
I’m thinking the unit was possibly damaged in shipping. Frustrating...yes. But these things happen sometimes. It’s great to know when they do happen the manufacturer will be there for you.
Hats off to Denafrips |
Replacement Terminator arrived. Perfect. Yeah, it was a little frustrating to go through a return but it did allow an insight into their all important after sales support. If you’re concerned about buying overseas, based on my experience with Alvin and Denafrips, worry not! Review to follow....good stuff!😁 |
