Thanks Mike. I'm using the Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Baby Grand which does everything I need for my current room.
Dave |
The DALIs are very amp sensitive. The bass can sound very woolly without a good bit of power and damping to handle the woofers. I heard them with 4 amps and each sounded very different.
Dave |
05-02-08: Mike60 said:
"I have owned the 400 and the 800mk2, with different amps, and heard them with many other amps. I disagree that they are amp sensitive. The sound good on an average amp, but will reveal the flaws to some extent, and they are superb with a great amp. I have also read comments from others that confirm dali's arent as amp fussy as other speakers. I would suggest above 100w will drive and control them very nicely in moderate room."
IME, 100 Class AB watts (Primare) was grossly inadequate. 200 watts was better and 500 watts was much better. I think they need 200 watts.
I'm going back with another amp to give them another chance. I'll take my Conrad JOhnson CA200, which should be almost 300 watts into the DALI load. We'll see if that doesn't work.
Dave |
Yeah, the 100w Primare was clearly not up to the task with the DALIs, yet the Rowland 102 stereo amps was much better. The rowland 501s were way better.
I'll try again on Monday.
Dave |
There are two potential problems with the DALI's bass, IME. One is a high potential that the bass will be woolly and uncontrolled with some amps. This is easily controlled by many amps, but the user just needs to be aware of this and select an amp accordingly.
The other issue has to do with deep bass, below 50hz. Listeing to truly deep bass I've found the DALIs have difficulty producing the character of the notes (overtones) and gets into a one-note mode. Hopefully I'll have time to try it with one more amp today. I've got my Conrad Johnson CA200 in the trunk of my car and hope to get a chance to plug that in. It's around 300 watts into 4 ohms. If that doesn't fix the issue, then I'm going to think it's a resonance or crossover issue that can't be fixed. That'll be the fifth amp. It's not a power-need issue.
I'll report back soon.
Dave |
Sorry, but putting the Conrad Johnson CA200 "control amp" (somewhere over 300 watts into the DALI's 4 ohm-ish load) into the system did not fix the DALI's low bass extension issue. You really only hear it with extremely low notes as produced by synthesizer. Most acoustic bass comes through with no problem.
I don't think it's the room because the Vienna Acoustics are just fine in Sounding's large listening room. We put the Beethoven Baby Grands right inside the DALIs and they had no problem.
Dave |
Mike, this issue that I experienced was in very low bass, below string orchestra levels typically. So it was synthesizers playing below the five-string electric bass range. I only ran into it on some of my light jazz albums. Also, you if you heard it you might not know it was limited, because there's a strong signal there, but it just doesn't show it's full character. You have to hear it on another speaker and then you'll realize your missing it.
My guess is that well under 10% of my CD/LP collection would expose the issue. So, your odds are pretty good that it will NOT interfere with your enjoyment. The mids and particularly the highs near the top of the heap with the DALIs, IME. |
05-07-08: Steidlguitars said:
"Dcstep, this is not intended as some sort of challenge, but perhaps you're asking the Helicons to reproduce sounds they're not really designed to reproduce. Do you know the frequency you're focusing on?
If that frequency range is especially important to anyone, then unless they have a true full-range speaker, the would likely be well served by adding a subwoofer.
I too have been impressed with the Helicon 400s from top to bottom, though perhaps not quite bottom bottom... "
Thanks for your comment.
I haven't brought both my tuner and SPL meter into the room to figure out the exact frequencies, but yes they are very low, like 30-40 hz. I've got a test CD with sine waves and these seem in that range, without using instruments to absolutely verify that.
Yes, you're right, these speakers may not be designed to go that low and one may want to try the 800s if they otherwise like the DALIs but need more depth. However, I would point out that there are speakers that are smaller than these and cost much less that do play those notes, which is probably the source of my surprise.
Dave |
Well Mike60, the OP started out talking about the 400, but somewhere along the way we DID indeed start talking about both. I've never heard the 800, so I can't comment on it.
Anyway, we certainly seem to agree on the strengths of the DALIs, their mids and highs. The DO demand good amplification because they're very revealing. I heard them with some very transparent amps, so the guitars and vocals where very nice.
Dave |
Bondmanp, well I haven't heard the combo that your refer to, but I can't imagine that the subs couldn't take care of the low-bass issue that I had. I think you could cross-over at 60 Hz and end up with a stellar setup. Of course, you have the issues of integrating the subs with the mains, but I'll have to assume that you were able to do that well.
Dave |
