Cryo treating CD's absolutely works (either pre-recorded or blanks).
Audio Top CD treatment is well worth the money and effort (as is Vivid, but Audio Top is clearly better than Vivid).
Furutech's Demagnetizer is well worth the money and also makes a significant improvement.
I always use Audio Top and Furutech's Demagnetizer on all of my CD's and I burn copies of favorite CD's on cryoed blank CD's.
A friend who's opinion I respect, has experimented with both Cryo and demag treatment of his CD's and reports great benefit sonically. He says it improves smoothness and textures while making everything more cohesive.
I have not tried this myself, so I cannot speak from personal experience. If you do this test, please share the results.
Due to the nature of the material that is used in construction of the cd, they benefit greatly from cryogenic treatment. For full benefit to be realized, they do require a different treatment cycle than AC parts or wire.
In the case of both pre-recorded and blank cd's, a treated one will sound much smoother with more apparent detail. Cryo also seems to help with sibilance and the "spittiness" that some cd's exhibit.
Cryo also makes quite a large difference on DVD's. The black levels seem better on treated DVD's, in addition to the sound level benefits.
*In the interest of full disclosure--My business is cryo treatment.*
I have been using a Radio Shwag bulk tape eraser on my CDs for many years. It's cheap and it's like a Bedini on steroids.
I've had all my CD's cryoed for about the past 2 years; I have a cryo vendor located about 15 minutes away so it's pretty convenient. Smoothness and transparency, easier to follow bass lines, etc, etc. are noticeably improved. The effects seem to be more noticeable on particularly aggressive CD's, but sound is improved even on well recorded discs.
Apparently there is a dealer in Toronto selling cryoed blanks for $5 each because well burned copies on the cryoed blanks sound better than the originals. I don't do any burning/copying so can't comment on that.
Elgordo-please elaborate on the bulk tape eraser.
I've never heard of it but would like to know more.
Does anyone have an idea regarding how cryo treatment could affect the sound? There is no sound on the digital disc, just a bunch of ones and zeros. About all you could do would be turn some ones into zeros or vice versa, and it seems that this would degrade the sound, not improve it.
El, maybe one or both those treatments helps the CD player "read" the ones and zero's, and therefore reproducing the music more as it was intended.
What does it cost to cryo treat a CD?
Most cryo vendors have a per pound charge. Here is an example:
If you are fortunate enough to find a vendor locally, you may be able negotiate a slightly better price if they have an almost full load going in and you are the "top up". It is not very expensive.
I tried the Cyro thing 6-10 years ago after I read about it in Stereophile. The Cyro vendor was just a walk across the parking lot from my father's hosiery mill. I tried a couple of CD's and could not hear any difference. I had a 5$500 Rotel at the time. If I had a better player maybe the subtle nuiances would have come out. I have a much better CD player now. I have the Bedini clarifier and that DOES make a differnce. I may still try Cyro again. The knife I had Cyro treated held an edge that you would not believe. I would like to hear the physics side on how a cyro CD would sound better. Mike
Has anyone compared a cryo-treated CD to one beveled with the Audio Desk Systeme and demagnetized with a Bedini or Furtech?
I guess all you guys missed my thread on this one. Call Charles at Cryogenics International in Scottsdale, AZ. Website:www.Cryogenicsinternational.com. When I have been in his shop I have noticed some well know merchandise being treated for the manufacturer, but I swore I wouldn't say who I saw. It is a confidentiality agreement thing. I did all my CDs and DVD's and the sound is so much smoother, quieter and 3 dimensional. I can't explain the process as well as his article about this on his website, but go there and check it out. Here is the tip: Get some of those plastic containers that store blank CD's and load a 100 CD's into each of those things. It will save you hundreds of dollars in weight. I can't verify Charle's price now, but when I did this 6 months ago, it was $9/lb with some price breaks at certain weights. Get your friends to do it to so there's more weight to lower the price. He will ship it back to you. He doesn't even have to take them out of the box or container to put them through the process. It is by far the best tweak I have ever tried (and reasonably priced) and I think before getting new equipment, this should be the first thing one should do. My only caution with cryogenics is be careful if you do your cabling. Ask your manufacturer if anything can be ruined. I ruined my Sonoran cabling putting it through the process. I highly recommend treating your tubes. It will make them last longer, make them sonically quieter and burn brighter. Try it and post your experience.
Blueranger....Cryo is just an extreme form of heat treatment which has been, for several thousand years, a technique for modifying the physical properties of metal. What happend to your knife has no relavance to CDs.
Hifimaniac--who treated your cables and what happened? CI is one of the best, so if it was them that did your treating, I'm sure it was done properly. I have treated (or had treated) thousands upon thousands of feet of wire and never ran into a problem. Just wondering what in the Sonoran's makeup could cause problems.
As far as CD/DVD treatment goes, to make a long complicated explanation short, cryo relieves the stresses caused by the manufacturing of the disc. Polycarbonate (and most other materials for that matter) develops stresses/voids/imperfections when molded.
Deep cryogenic treatment, done properly, by virtue of the temperatures involved (-300F to -320F) works at the atomic level. The atomic bonds weaken at these super cold temps and the molecules re-align in a more uniform structure.
The above explanation is greatly simplified, but cryo does, if done properly, work wonders on most of the items we use to pursue our love of good sound.
Guitarplayer, Charles did my Sonoran cables and the pvc lining inside that coats the wire was shattered and the microbearing steel that shields the entire cable was in contact with the copper wire inside. As a result the entire soundstage collapsed. In addition to that, the nylon sheathing on the outside of the cable cracked and the microbearing leaked out. So I lost a 7M XLR interconnect that cost me $1300 and 10Ft. speaker cables that cost me $860. This happened on all my Sonoran power cords too at a cost of around $325 each. I lost over $2000 of wire and power cords and I am not real happy about this. Charles should have advised me on the risks of the nylon sheathing and many other issues. My VAC power supplies for a pair of monoblock amplifiers had to be sent back to VAC too as they started to hum. Again, Charles said he had done many power supplies and none had trouble. Mine got noisy. I don't think they are ruined because I used them for a month afterwards with no problems, but Kevin Hayes thinks some of the caps could be damaged and he is looking at them. My Tice powerblock plastic casing split and the adhesive holding the mounts inside melted and the power supply hums more now than it did before. I dipped it because I was told that it would help the hum. So I am a believer in the CD's, but cabling and other stuff, I would be very careful. Wire is best treated before it is made into the finished product. I hope that helps.
Hifimaniac--Interesting. I have never had any type of jacketing or sleeving crack. When problems like this occur, it is generally accepted that it is due to "thermal shock". Thermal shock can occur if an object is cooled too quickly. Audio cabling and the like must be ramped down very slowly, much slower than metal tooling and the like. Thermal shock is why cryo took a long time to be, "perfected" if you will, due to objects being stuck directly into the LN2 and things becoming brittle, exactly the opposite of what cryo should do. Even metal tooling can become brittle if cooled too quickly.
Sorry to hear about your troubles. Losing that much cabling hurts, and I'm not the one who lost the money.
As far as the case cracking on your gear, that's actually quite common. I don't recommend that entire components be treated due to the plastic that inhabits many components will flex and break upon encountering super cold temperatures. The other reason I don't recommend cryo-treating entire components is that IMHO, electrolytic caps should never be cryo'd. That is probably what is wrong with your VAC's. I would have Kevin replace any 'lytic caps, just in case...The transformers should be fine, as cryo generally does quiet them down. Does the Tice have any 'lytic caps in it? If so, try replacing them and it may quiet down.
Advice: If any of you feel they must have their cd player, or whatever component, cryo'd, please find a place that has a great deal of experience treating audio gear and uses a dry process. Take your faceplate off and slightly loosen any screws that go into plastic. However, IMHO, don't risk it.
Good night everyone. The Academy Awards are over and I'm going to bed!
I feel for you Hifimaniac. Hopefully everything will come out okay on the VAC's.
Guitarplayer, Kevin says the eltrolytic caps look okay, but I a taking your advice as they could fail at any time. I have requested a quote to replace them all to make sure they are at peak performance. Thanks for the tip as my units are there now.
Hifimaniac: Sorry to hear of your problems. I've cryoed a fair bit of cabling (Kimber 8TC speaker, 2 Cardas Golden power cords, 3 DIY JPS cords, another DIY cord made from 47 Labs OTA, interconnects made from 47 Labs OTA terminated with Eichmann bullet plugs, SVHS cables and component video cables) and had absolutely no problem. I am only speculating, but am guessing there was something wrong with the cryo cycle your cables went through. I've also cryoed two DVD players and two power conditioners (both Inouye SLC's). Both DVD players (a Toshiba and a Cyberhome) came through perfectly, although I do have a stress crack on the faceplate of the Cyberhome which may have been caused by me overtightening screws when I got the unit back. I cryoed one line conditioner first to see how it would take the process and it came through perfectly. The 2nd had some fairly serious cracking on MOV's within the unit, which I was initially very nervous about. The damage to the MOV's, however, seems to have had no detrimental effect on the conditioner. Interestingly, the two conditioners were manufactured at different times (I acquired them used for a song) and the MOV's were, in fact, different, which may explain why the cracking occurred on the 2nd unit and not the first. My cryo vendor offered to compensate for repair of the unit, but I declined as it seems to work fine and I really don't have much invested in it. With the damage sustained to your cables, I would think that the cryo vendor should particapate, to some extent, in making things right, particularly if he has stated that there have not been problems with other similar cables (and my experience is that there should not be).
I would say that cryoing the cabling in my system has been a great success and would highly recommend it to anyone. Both line conditioners benefited greatly as well and the Cyberhome was, in my opinion, really transformed by the cryo. Interestingly, the Toshiba, from my perspective, did not seem to benefit from it, and another audiophile from Toronto who had some Toshiba boards done recently told me he preferred the non-cryoed version of the Toshiba. So, I suppose the moral of the story is that, at least with respect to components, cryo may not be universally good.
The beauty of the Cyberhome, for anyone that is interested, is that it can be had at Walmart for about $40 plus another $20 to cryo it, so you are not out much money. In the past, I've owned Arcam and Cambridge Audio players and the cryoed and moderately tweaked Cyberhome is a far superior player that I don't beleive would be embarassed by players costing 10-20X what I have invested in it.
Hifimaniac--Happy to help!
Like HDM said, if done properly, deep cryogenic treatment of cables and other parts can yield tremedous benefits for a fairly small cash outlay.
I've got to go to Wally World and pick up one of those Cyberhomes. Sounds like just the ticket for my son's upstairs system!