Cryo treated wires?

Tireguy; thanks for posting the Jena Labs info.-- an interesting read.

Rainchild; While I have not done a direct before and after test of the same cryo wire vs non-cryo, you may be interested that I just replaced an old 6 awg wire (from main to sub-main in my dedicated AC system) with a 60 ft. cryo treated 10 awg wire from Virtual Dynamics. I also bought and installed their cryo treated 30 amp breaker in the main breaker panel. The improvements in sound quality, while not dramatic, were very worth while.

Prior to the change, my systems AC was slightly bright and I could only tame the brightness with high quality power cords-- but noise floor was very low. The new VD cryo treated wire and breaker presents music with a greater sense of ease, naturalness, and more "liveness".

The VD on-line literature says the cryo treated products allow one to see "deeper into the music". That didn't mean much to me until I actually heard it for myself, and then I said "yeah that's exactly what happens. Specifically, I would say both micro and macro-dynamics are improved but in a very natural way. Why this works I don't know.

In phase 2 of my dedicated AC upgrade program, I plan to replace the 4 standard 20 amp breakers in my sub-main with VD cryo'ed breakers, replace all 5 of my Hubbell outlets with 5 cryo'ed Hubbells, and finally replace the present 12 awg THHN wires with the VD 10/4 awg cryo'ed wires.

I'm now completely convinced that the cryo'ed stuff works and has a nicely positive affect on music quality and character. Good Luck, and Cheers. Craig

Ohlala; if anyone thinks it's just advertisiing that's fine. As for me, I'm just enjoying the timbrally rich, mellow music that I consider a very nice and welcome improvement. But it could just be the new wire even w/o the cryo treatment.

However, I've read many, many positive reviews of the beneficial effects of the cryo process on parts that could affect music quality, and I wanted to try it myself-- so I did with the above results. I read a lot, and get much information that way, and yes some of it is advertising.

Does anyone want me to get the electricians back and have them tear out the cryo wire ($80./hr.), which I really like, and have them put some in that meets someone else's specs ($80./hr.)? And then if I don't like that wire, I could get the electricians back and have them tear out the wire ($80./hr) and put in some other wire($80./hr.).

So, Let's not take this argument to the point of the ridiculous, electricians get expensive, and minimum house call charge wasn't even mentioned. Why would someone want to try and meet someone else's expectations (wives excluded)? Is all advertising false?, or does some meet with approval? Please enlighten us. But most of all, please tell us of your experiences with cryo'ed products and music quality/character?

I'm going to reach the 6th decade in 2 weeks or so, and I don't BS myself. In those years I've learned to trust my own hearing ability and judgement much more than I do someone else's cynical skepticism-- however good their intentions may be. Cheers. Craig

Ohlala; I'll stand by my original post. Please re-read it if it's not clear to you. I was insulted because you impugned my integrity. As to sources for info on cryo treatment, try the A'Gon, AA and other audio site archives. You should actually try some cryo treated products-- you might like them, and outlets are not that expensive relative to many things in the high end.

I appreciate the other posts by Lak, Hdm, Abex, Sugarbrie, Sean, and Tireguy about their observations on cryo treatment. I find myself in good company. Cheers. Craig

Ohlala; you argue well. However in your above reply to Hdm you (finally) say: "In a high resolution system, I am sure the difference would be obvious, and if the system was managed well enough, the effect of the cryo would be beneficial." How would you know this? By reading? Why not try listening using rigorous test methods if you need?

I have a high resolution system and the difference using the cryo treated VD wire was very obvious to me-- it sounded nothing like several other regular copper wires I'd tried in this position. I consider Albertporter a well informed colleague too, and his experience influenced me to start trying cryo'ed products-- to my benefit I'm thinking.

What started this whole bit of nonsence was that I didn't add "IMO" to the end of my first post-- sorry for that now. Afterall, much or even most of high end audio is based purely on opinion. Ya' know subjective listening. Yes? Cheers. Craig

Ohlala; I too will go back and correct some deficiencies in my first post. I tried Virtual Dynamics cryogenically treated 10/4 BX wire and liked the beneficial effects it had on my system very much. That is a fact. The new VD wire replaced a "brightish sounding " old Zaner 6/3 stranded copper wire.

It is my sense that the cryo treatment is pretty important to the sonic improvements though. This is based on past trials as noted below, as well as others reported experiences with cryo. I did not cite these originally as the post was already getting long.

But I can't say for sure if the beneficial effect on sonics was simply due to the new wire or the cryogenic treatment. In this trial they were inseparable, and I don't think VD sells the 10/4 wire untreated. Even if they did, it would be an expensive proposition to purchase, install and try both.

However, in years past I've tried several other wires between main and submain, to include: Romex 12/2 (non-ded.)-- pretty poor; Romex 12/2 dedicated-- fairly good, but soft, and lacking dynamics; Zaner 6/3 stranded, dedicated, direction 1-- very soft dull, boring; Zaner 6/3 stranded direction 2-- much more live, dynamic, somewhat bright, but best of the trials. 3 years later: the Virtual Dynamics 10/4 cryo'ed wire-- a very worthwhile improvement over all others. However, my stereo system was changed (improved) over this time too.

I was able to try these different wires at the time as the electricians had things torn apart and I asked them for a few days to do "testing". They didn't understand but humored me, and even at that it almost cost me a divorce as I had un-installed wires running all over the place on a Fri night., Sat., and Sun.

I just made my original post as a casual contribution to an audio forum "chat room". It was never meant to pass scientific scrutiny for "publishing" as some kind of scientific treatise. I was a Forest Soil Scientist for 30+ years and am well aware of the demands of credible scientific publications.

Ohlala, this has been an interesting exchange, at least to me. You have an inquiring mind and an incisive logic that I respect. I hope I have adequately addressed your reservations regarding my first post. And I also hope that there is no lasting enmity between us. Cheers. Craig

Sean; thanks for a touch of levity. I think this thread has run its course-- and besides we've now got a real war to hold our attention. No Cheers on that;>( Craig