Considering switching from Audio Research to PrimaLuna, troube with VS115 amp


Hello everyone, I have question that I hope some of you either can answer or have an opinion on. Ever since I was 17, I have always wanted to own Audio Research equipment. I’m 56 now, and finally was able to fulfill my life long dream. My first acquisition was an ARC LS15 pre-amp bought here used in mint condition. I paired it with a Vincent 331MK hybrid amp also bought here used in mint condition. The resulting sound was impressive. After that, I started looking for an ARC amp I could afford. The resulting search found me an ARC VS115 amp also here in used, awesome condition. This is where my problems and my doubts started. Upon hooking up the amp to my system, a tube in the left channel arced and blew a resistor. I had to take the amp to an ARC dealer and he installed a new resistor and suggested I buy all new tubes from ARC for the amp. I did and when I got back home, I again hooked up the amp and immediately upon turning the amp on, I started to hear thumping sounds coming from my left speaker, then, two left channel output tubes started to glow a very bright orange, and then white smoke started to rise from one of the tube sockets. I immediately turned the amp off. I called the dealer and he suggested I mail the unit back to ARC. I did and I am now waiting to see what they say.

During this time, I started to search out other brands and came across one called PrimaLuna. I have watched their videos and seen them compared to ARC equipment. Their build quality seems to be superior to ARC and the reviews are over the top. I am looking at their Dialogue Premium HP amp and their Dialogue Premium pre-amp. For what they cost, considering how they are built and supposedly sound compared to units costing 3 to 4 times their price, they almost seem too good to be true. Anyway, my bubble has been burst, and in simple terms, I am considering jumping ship and going with another company instead of ARC, despite all those years of drooling and waiting.

My main question is this, is there anyone out there that either owns PrimaLuna or has had experience with the equipment and can give me their opinion on owning and using it. Then, my second question is how does PrimaLuna really compare to other high end equipment such as ARC. Kevin Deal in his videos on PrimaLuna makes a very compelling case for the equipment. In one video, he compares an ARC LS17SE to the PrimaLuna pre-amp.

My last question is in regards to my ARC VS115 amp problems. Anyone have an opinion on what is going on with my amp or a VS115 in general. For those of you who want to know what else is in my system, I am using KEF 104ab speakers, a Cambridge Azur 752BD Blu-ray player as my CD player, Morrow Audio Cables and I am considering getting the Sony HAP-Z1ES music player for my digital files.

I greatly appreciate all who take the time to comment and give their opinions. I will be glad to answer any questions you may ask or provide additional. Thanks for your help. Steve.


128x128skyhawk51

Showing 7 responses by jbhiller

I love my Primaluna Dialogue HP integrated.  My analysis was it was a great value for the price, really well built, and designed for ease of use. Having it for 7 months, all those things are still true.  

There re is little to fault with it. I don't like that when the amp turns on that it defaults to ultra linear mode--not a big deal. The remote is a milled piece of beauty but I think it could be more sensitive by having greater response--feels unidirectional in transmission. 

Pm me if you want to chat. 
@skyhawk51,
I'm certainly no expert but it's my understanding that some consider point-to-point wiring advantageous (over printed circuit boards) due to the heat created by tubes.  The reasoning is, I think, that the tubes create signficant heat that can damage PCBs and/or the connection between a wire/component part and the board itself.  

I've read that some of the premium manufacturers of radios kept using point-to-point wiring for this reason.  

In addition to Primaluna, I Rogers looks like it does hand wiring as well.  I've never looked inside a McIntosh or ARC tube amp. http://rogershighfidelity.com/portfolio-type/rogers-ehf-200-ehf-200-mk2/


@johnss , I think you may have noted something like cap rolling before with respect to PL amps.  Can you tell us more about that?  I'm very interested. I though PL used good French caps. 
I think that I maybe thought the test shootout would be last Saturday.  Sorry. 

I want to make points in my very limited humble opinion:

1. To the OP, as someone else seemed to say above, I wouldn't fret this too much.  You bought a quality piece of equipment.  I wonder if the differences between the ARC and Primaluna will be marginal.  We cannot forget to enjoy the music.  I'd ask myself, can I live with what I bought?   And the good news is you can always buy a Primaluna and sell the ARC--or keep the ARC.  I bet it's amazing. 

2.  On Kevin Deal being a used car salesman.  I own a Primaluna HP Integrated.  And, I have had some a need for customer service for two issues.  Kevin Deal was simply amazing.  He called me on nights and weekends.  He followed up immediately each time.  His staff gave him my detailed messages. He understood the messages BEFORE we talked.  He told me, "Dude, I will not leave you hanging here."  Yes, that language is casual and so Southern California--I'm in Chicago.  But it was cool because his casual language meant something more than formal language from other dealers--he stood by his product and was awesome in the process. 

I bought an open box item.  When I had an issue with the remote and mute function on the amp, Kevin worked through it.  When we couldn't get it easily resolved, Kevin shipped me a brand new unit by Fedex 2 day from Cali to Chicago.  He told me not to ship back the original product until I had the replacement up and running.  He said you don't want to be without a stereo during this process.

I was so happy and blown away (because of the service and how great the amp sounded) I offered to pay full price for the new unit, as Kevin had only really offered to sell me an open box one at a discount.  Kevin's response to my offer--"Just enjoy the amp man."  

I don't think Kevin would be as successful as he is if he were a used car salesman.  Kevin needs me to keep coming back to him.  Have we all seen his facility and stock?  He can't keep that facility up by selling snake oil or BS.  Customers are fickle and discriminating.  If Kevin sold me a tube and told me it was better than another tube--yet it was salesy garbage/puffery--he would either need to fool me with bias and BS or I can independently find him to be wrong.  

I don't want to come off like Kevin is the second coming of our savior.  I just want to say that he is a class act businessman.  I buy from him because of his service and fair dealing.

By the way...I do own a Primaluna HP integrated, Manley Chinook, a host of tubes and DH Labs cables, which I bought from Upscale. I am not related to Kevin in any way and have never met the man in person.   
Please feel free to ignore this question if it's hijacking the thread too much.  Given folks are commenting on the quality of tube amps out there...

I'm super curious to know if you folks have any intel/opinions on Icon Audio tube amplifiers?  They are a British company and their products are available at Music Direct.  They look to be of quality but I haven't stumbled on users or reviews of them. 
Awesome post, responses and great follow-up by everyone as well as Kevin.  A special thanks to Kevin for setting that up and posting for all us to read about the results. 

It seems like the takeaway is the Primaluna product is a solid bet with tons of value--exactly why I bought it!