@krelldog do you know your phono cable capacitance? To make sure you load the cartridge best and assure high dynamics and resolution it would be good to know.
Then you can set your Koru by mathematical process, as others stated this will/should allow your cartridge to work "less" rather than harder which will stiffen the cantilever and reduce cart life. The stylus will not ride in the grooves easily......
I originally had a high cap cable and changed to a very low cap cable and the difference is close to night and day......I load my Delos at 475 ohms and 57.5dB gain with a phono cable at about 60pF.
Total bliss....... |
I have my Nova II phono pre capacitance set at 100pF for my Delos and I use an AQ Cougar phono cable with total cap at 60pF. Lyra suggests using the lowest cap cable you can, and for me it does make a difference, as I was using a very high cap cable in the 350pF range with loading at 121 ohms.
The dynamics and resolution is so much better now. |
^ I agree.......I have followed pretty much everything JCarr has stated in other forums about loading and all I can attest is my listening experience is much better for it.
The part that I focus on is that your LOMC should not be tasked to work so hard that it stiffens compliance, I can't see any good from that.
Unless you like buying a new cart sooner, much sooner, than normal. |
There is a tremendous amount of info here, both super technical as well as the basics. If you do one thing, that is click on the link JCarr posted from 4yrs ago on Whatsbestforum, it gets you well into cartridge loading topic by an expert.
I read that article 3yrs ago and that opened my eyes to LOMC loading, and what is happening from stylus thru phono stage to power amp...and why.
It is very true, we must use our ears and chose what sounds best for us, even in the Lyra instruction booklet it gives you the mathematical process but then also states, or determine by listening.
The one thing for sure is that I will never own a phono stage that only gives me a couple loading options as well as no gain settings (more gain is not the answer).
And yes I do want to enjoy the music, more than anything, but I want that at the highest level of resolution and dynamics I can afford or adjust for.
Cheers, |
To me I have always viewed with LOMC "100 ohms gets you a nice sound and 47K ohms gets you a very open nice sound". Then everything in between, but all this has many depending factors that are outlined in several posts @wynpalmer4 as its so true that most of the differences in sound we hear is due to the differences in phono stage design, topology. I think most if not all distortion we hear from increasing value of phono stage input R load is intermodulation created by the phono stage, not the cartridge. I think this varies also due to the circumstances, how sensitive the phono stage is to RF energy and such and don't forget about how the whole cable/wire chain affects too (cartridge wiring, tonearm wiring and phono cable to amp) maybe HF sensitivity of the phono stage.
I think it is clear, that all phono stages react differently based on topology and what the designer did, just too many variables to have the "correct setting", I think you just want a phono stage that will be stable within a given range and maybe the designer can advise if there is such a range they were thinking of.
I hate when a reviewer does not advise what settings they are using when reviewing a phono stage, because this could dictate the sound character they are hearing and whether they give a favorable review or not....I actually believe most are not listening to a phono stage that has been properly setup. Not all LOMC carts sound best at 100 ohms......Variety is the spice of life!!
Cheers |
@rauliruegas
Well, if you have done all the listening tests and have settled at 47K ohms within your system then carry on. At the end of the day its about what your ears tell you and quite possibly your room.
What I think most of us are saying is, depending on your phono stage will depend on what you settle on if you have adjust-ability, don't settle with 100 ohms just because it is close to 10x the internal, which is what you read over and over.
Figure out your cable capacitance and then get with your cart mfg and find out how they built the cart and what suggestions they have on loading. Start there.......then adjust till your ears are satisfied. My route was to use the mathematical process based on how Lyra designed the Delos. Sure I played with loading quite a lot, but the math version clearly gave me the highest level of resolution and dynamics.
Cheers, |
@2channel8 The PII is a great phono stage, with huge adjustability. Performs well above price point. I have one in another system.....
The Hana is a .5mV output, what gain are you set at? Hana suggests >400 ohms loading, what are you at and do you know the capacitance of your phono cable?
If you are running gain at more than 56-57dB...that might be why you don't notice any differences. Too much gain can kill dynamics and resolution...... |
@rauliruegas
Maybe I misunderstood your previous message about you loading at 47K ohms.....all is good.
And yes room acoustics and many other issues we cannot really control come into play.
I have not had my ears cleaned by a professional in many year, I don't remember the last time this happened, should look into that :)
Cheers
|
@2channel8 well if you have been running at 475 ohms then I can only assume you have a low cap cable. If you had a high cap cable I have a feeling you would hear the difference.
You should find out though, email the cable mfg and ask them. Let us know what 100K ohms does for you.....I have never tried that high of a setting on my Nova II |
Specifically to phono cable from TT RCA box to phono stage.....Cable capacitance does matter with regard to LOMC cartridges. Lyra specifically suggests using a low cap cable, they do not recommend high cap cables.
I also used a Morrow Audio PH6 Grand Reference phono cable for some time and when I finally asked Mike he said 390pF/mt and I was shocked! He said he never heard HF rolloff with his cables, I tend to agree but then I assume it is because you have to load at a lower setting, which is not good for the cantilever, you run the chance of stiffening the cantilever.
Once I switched to AQ Cougar at 40pF/mt and loaded my Delos to 475 ohms.That's when the higher dynamics and resolution came into play, it was a jaw dropping moment. The Delos performance rose many levels, really everything just got better.
On my Musical Surroundings Nova II I have the setting at 100pF (the new model settings are 100/200pF, the older were 200/300pF), Michael Yee changed it. In general I too hear no difference but have it set to lowest closest to my cable rating.
I tell everyone just find out all the specs you can, then go from there. You can't make the proper settings till you know all the info along the signal path.
Cheers |
@2channel8 I use 475 ohms because of the cable cap rating and the suggested range by Lyra. Lyra suggests for a 50pF total capacitance loading range should be 510-270 ohms and for 100pF total capacitance range should be 390-200 ohms. My cable is 1.5m and total cap is 60pF, add a small amount for tonearm wiring so I reduced my starting number some. Upon listening sessions anything above 475 ohms seemed too open and bass was restricted, and by open we mean too much high end, not sound stage. Staging actually shrunk some.....
Yesterday I changed my loading to 100K ohms, just to see and listened to about 4 records. It sounded just fine but......I lost resolution and dynamics, as well as sound stage. Any surface noise seemed to be the same. It was like listening with my high cap cable loaded at 121 ohms, so 475 ohms is much closer to being correct from Lyra's mathematical suggestion. This is why my feeling is a phono stage with variable loading is key if you want the best sound possible. I have never tried 1000 ohms, it seems out of the range that Lyra suggests.
@rauliruegas I don't have test bench gear to make any measurements, if that is what you are asking for then I have to bow out, I can't tell you any specific measurements I am getting in my setup when loaded at 121 ohms, 475 ohms or 100K ohms.
JCarr also suggested that can happen if you load the phono stage too low, making the cartridge work harder. It's why he says the use of a lower cap cable allows you to load the phono stage higher resistance values.
If your cantilever does not move freely, I believe it will not ride in the groove easily, it will not read both walls easily and this is when you lose/reduce resolution and also staging draws in.
I only say this because my listening experience tells me this, in my case a 475 ohms loading gives me the highest resolution, dynamics and soundstaging possible as compared to 100-121 ohms and just recently 100K ohms. For my setup, cable, cartridge, tonearm 475 ohms is the optimal setting. Most of this due to how Lyra builds their cartridges, so for me it makes sense. This is why you need to try different settings and listen, but you should understand what is going on at 100 ohms vs 1000 ohms vs 100K ohms.
Cheers |
@rauliruegas I have zero issue with your post and hearing results. My point is try all settings you can and decide on what sounds best to you. All phono stages and cartridges perform differently, I am sure there are tons of people using Lyra carts that load at 100 ohms.....And if that works for them I cannot disagree.
My system does not sound like yours and my ears do not hear like yours.........
All good.....Cheers |
