Rhyno -
Well like most rules there are exceptions, and Kirk points out a significant one, as far as electrostats and low bass goes. I've had two customers tell me their Sound Lab full range electrostats measure -3 dB somewhere in the low 20's. The factory only claims upper 20's, but they will shake the room with a powerful enough amplifier (though admittedly not as vigorously as a good subwoofer can).
As with any loudspeaker, low bass output level for an electrostat is ultimately limited by displacement. And there is a tradeoff relationship between maximum diaphragm excursion and efficiency. Sound Labs have superb microdynamics, but can't match the macrodynamics of a first-rate conventional speaker - I'd say their practical limit is probably somehere between 105 and 110 dB at the listening position, given sufficient amplifier power.
I only have one Sound Lab customer (out of ballpark two dozen) who's using subwoofers, and he isn't using them to get deeper bass. Instead, he's using them to relieve the panels of having to do those long excursions, thereby increasing the macrodynamic potential of the system. He served in the artillery during the Viet Nam war, so he needs it kinda loud.
The InnerSound Eros mentioned by Tony is indeed very dynamic, both micro and macro.
As far as a box speaker that sounds like a full-range electrostat, probably the best conventional box speaker I've heard is the Intuitive Design Denali, which retails for something north of forty grand. The next closest is probably the Audio Artistry Beethoven, but that may be cheating a bit, since the Beethoven is a dynamic dipole speaker, not a "box" speaker. If I do find a box speaker that sounds like a first-rate electrostat, I'll pick up the line in a heartbeat.
Dennis, just curious - what keeps you from considering an electrostat? What are you looking for that you don't think an electrostat can deliver? Or, is it a matter of speaker size and/or placement issues?
Best wishes on your quest!
Duke
Well like most rules there are exceptions, and Kirk points out a significant one, as far as electrostats and low bass goes. I've had two customers tell me their Sound Lab full range electrostats measure -3 dB somewhere in the low 20's. The factory only claims upper 20's, but they will shake the room with a powerful enough amplifier (though admittedly not as vigorously as a good subwoofer can).
As with any loudspeaker, low bass output level for an electrostat is ultimately limited by displacement. And there is a tradeoff relationship between maximum diaphragm excursion and efficiency. Sound Labs have superb microdynamics, but can't match the macrodynamics of a first-rate conventional speaker - I'd say their practical limit is probably somehere between 105 and 110 dB at the listening position, given sufficient amplifier power.
I only have one Sound Lab customer (out of ballpark two dozen) who's using subwoofers, and he isn't using them to get deeper bass. Instead, he's using them to relieve the panels of having to do those long excursions, thereby increasing the macrodynamic potential of the system. He served in the artillery during the Viet Nam war, so he needs it kinda loud.
The InnerSound Eros mentioned by Tony is indeed very dynamic, both micro and macro.
As far as a box speaker that sounds like a full-range electrostat, probably the best conventional box speaker I've heard is the Intuitive Design Denali, which retails for something north of forty grand. The next closest is probably the Audio Artistry Beethoven, but that may be cheating a bit, since the Beethoven is a dynamic dipole speaker, not a "box" speaker. If I do find a box speaker that sounds like a first-rate electrostat, I'll pick up the line in a heartbeat.
Dennis, just curious - what keeps you from considering an electrostat? What are you looking for that you don't think an electrostat can deliver? Or, is it a matter of speaker size and/or placement issues?
Best wishes on your quest!
Duke