ElectrostatsPlaner/Ribbon s Vs Cone driv

I have owned Proacs, B&W Nautilus, Theils and others but never planers. I auditioned ML Arieus but was not taken with the musicality and the other models too big for my room. No other dealers nearby to demo Maggies, etc.
I know the general differences of the two design concepts, but I am trying to determine if there is a smallish planer design that would give nearly all the satisfaction I am getting from my BW Nautilus 805's with REL Strata Sub. In particular I would love to gain the lifesize soundstage and midrange wonder but not feel lacking by the lesser performance in high and low frequencies. I have a Levinson 331 amp and AR LS22 preamp. thanks for any experienced suggestions.
There are any "small" planar speakers, but the Maggie 1.6R's are a great smaller model, and they should pair very well with a good subwoofer like the REL Strata.
Check out Manger USA. They have a new design for the low-mids-high range 200-32,000Hz (The extreme LF 20-200 is handeled by two 10" woofers. The sound is so open you might want to consider this new design.
The Maggie 1.6 is one that I am considering but was hoping to hear from someone about what I might expect in the way of pro's and cons of the 1.6 with REL sub vs the 805N with same sub. I will also try to get info on the Manger USA but I need something that will not overpower a smallish room. Again, no Maggie dealer nearby so I must rely on other's opinions for now. Thanks
I totally agree with the Maggie 1.6r's. They are everything the ML Aerius is not. If you can stretch a bit financially, you can reach a bit of nirvana with SoundLabs. Call Duke at AudioKinesis in New Orleans for the best service.
"...I am trying to determine if there is a smallish planer design..."--don't know about you, but in my book the Maggie 1.6 is not "smallish". More, "tallish" and "thinnish". To find smaller speakers with planar drivers may be a bit of a trick. Small panels don't make much sound--they can't move as much air. Although, the Red Rose monitor was ok at CES--but it didn't have the holographic/planar mids you may want. (It only has a ribbon tweeter--only about an inch square). I've happily listened to Apogee hybrids for many years and in particular have enjoyed their lifesize soundstage and mids-to-highs performace. The Apogee is not as big from the front as the Maggie. What it makes up for by being smaller than the Maggie, it more than gives back in the ugly department! Anywho, smaller speakers probably won't satisfy your low-end desires. (Nothing prurient implied!) But Apogees on their own don't have much for bass. So--maybe mate the Apogees with the REL. That's a combo I think may be to your liking...
I just returned Nautilus 805's and 804's, both with the B&W 1000 woofer. I found I could not tolerate the metal tweeter in the new Nautilus' (these replaced B&W P-6's I've enjoyed for years. I have purchased ML Ascents (size isn't an issue). The Maggie 1.6 and REL woof is a great combination.
Doug, which Apogee hybrid do you have? I went from Stages to Centaur's (26" ribbon/8" woofer) due to a move/smaller listening room and found the bass to be pretty good. Actually, pretty damn good. Maybe it was my room. I subsequently went to ML CLS's in a much larger room -- bass was not as good as the Centaurs. Now I've added Kinergetics SW800 sub towers (5 ten inch drivers in each enclosure) -- this mini-Statement system just slays. I think the Apogee hybrids are a solid recommendation. Low price of entry, hard to beat the ribbons for upper mids and highs.
Thanks to all for responding. I have to pause for thought at Kenp's comment about not being able to tolerate the tweeter in the B&W Nautilus series. I have never heard a sweeter top end. Different strokes I guess, perhaps other compents in the chain are having an effect too.
If there is anyone who loves the Nautilus sound like I do and can tell me what I might be losing by going to the Maggie 1.6QR I would greatly appreciate hearing from you.
Thanks, Chet
Jim, I made the same switch from Apogees to MLogans! I wish I had the room (and $) to go for the CLS/SW800 combo you have--man, am I one jealous cat! I heard your combo in the early 90's at a HiFi show, and it was fantastic. Now I run SL3s and like them for what they do--they are different from the Apogees. I used to run Centaurs. The bass is one area of big difference from one speaker to another. The Centaur has rich bass, while the SL3 is tight yet deeper. Kinda odd description, I know. In response to the original thread, the Centaur probably would be fine for all music on it's own. But since the thread says he already has a REL, I think he'd end up with a potent system. Jim--did you ever try to mate your Centaurs or Stages with a sub?
BTW, Jim, why did you switch from Apogee to ML? Curious.
My understanding is that Apogee is no longer in business. Should I be concerned about reliability and support?
Good question, Comchenry. Apogee is out of busines. However, their products have a good life-span in my experience. Plus, being out of business, their products are underpriced in the used market. If you do need repairs, there are two people making and repairing ribbons. One of these people is an ex-Apogee employee. Find info on the speakers and repairs at: http://www.apogeespeakers.totalserve.co.uk/ and http://audioworld.com/cgibin/sw/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=1. Between these sites, Comchenry, you will find lots on Apogees.

Apogees really are something special. And for the price they go for now, they are a bargain. Centaurs run about $400-500 commonly, and stages often less than a grand. These are great values! Having said all this, no one speaker is everything to everyone. But for the price, you can great one helluva speaker.
thanks much Doug. I was leaning towards the Maggie 1.6's but you cause me to pause for thought. How do all the good things you say about the Apogees compare to the Maggies? (considering that $2000 is about as much as I can spend)
Comcherry, funny how these things come up. This past weekend I purchased B&W dm601 s2 for my bed room system made up of leftovers, CJPV10a, Cal Audio Ikonn MKII, and Sonagraph sa125 amp. After listening over the weekend I started wondering what it would sound like if I traded them in eventually to 805's and used the new 805's and a sub to replace the ML Aerius i that I have in my main rig !!!
That is pretty interesting. Not sure I know what that says about our little hobby (obsession) and am pretty sure I don't want to know!

I did audition the Aerius and for my ears did not find it as musically involving as the B&W's. It is only because I have heard that the Maggies are more involving AND have the life size soundstage that I am considering the switch. The 805N's are really hard to fault though as they are in my system now. Take care
Comchenry, you ask about the differences between Apogees and Maggies. That's a comparison best made by you. There are differences, and even though I own Apogees, there are things I prefer about Maggies. This hobby of ours really boils down to what floats your boat. It would be great if you could find someone with Apogees local to you so you could listen. Generally, the people I have talked to prefer the sound of one over the other within a short time. But always, the listener can at least appreciate what the design they do not prefer can do well. Kinda like my MLogans; there are times when I almost admire them for their detail retreival. But, at the same time, they are not as involving as my Apogees. Weird. That's the way it goes.

Anywho, for $2k you have lotsa choices. I recently chose the SL3s for that same price. Ultimately I changed to electrostatics because I have listened to ribbons for awhile and wanted to try something new. We are obsessive, aren't we?
Obsessive, I suppose. But beats blowing money drinking, gambling or other vices (of course I drink some). I really do wish I could compare the Maggies and the Apogees in my listening room. Unfortunately no dealer in Colorado and I know of no owners nearby that would allow a comparison. So it basically leaves me with the option of asking for opinions and based on that I will probably just buy a used pair and if it is not what I like, take a small hit and re-sell. I am not as big on detail as I am dynamics and musicality. Does that sound more like the Maggies than other options?
Comchenry, I had the ML's and Maggies ( I forget which model, around $1400 ) at home to compare over a weekend. I ended up with the Logans because of constraints on placement. The ML's have a much smaller footprint. As far as the sound goes, I was back in forth all hours of the night the whole weekend trying to decide. There are qualities of both that I liked a lot. The ML's had the upperhand also since they where from the same retailer I had purchased my previous speakers from and where offering full retail back to trade up to the ML's. The Maggies are more dynamic, but I don't know if they will rock as much as the 805's you have. Good luck in whatever you decide.
I would check out the Newform Research 645 (or 630, if you need a smaller model). They use ribbon midrange/tweeters and two 6.5" Scanspeak drivers for bass. I do not have a pair--yet. I read all of the reviews for some "vicarious pleasure" until I get my pair. One of the comments is the size of its soundstage. Check out the reviews at audioreview.com. You will see the company's web address in those posts. If you get a pair, let me know how you like them. I'm hoping to get some this summer!
Steve Vinson
Doug, sorry for the late reply. My notebook`s screen went South. Now, I am sharing my wife`s computer -- Japanese software and all -- hoping all goes well.

I changed from Stages to Centaurs because of a smaller room. I never had the sense to try a high quality sub like the REL with the Centaurs. I then moved to a room that would work with one of my fav`s, the CLS`s with brand new panels. I then fell in to a sweet deal for as-new SW800`s that were owned by Gayle Sanders. Tony Di Chiro traded these to Gayle for a pair of CLS`s.

I know exactly what you mean comparing the SL3 and Centaur bass. The first generation Centaurus enclosures were not the best in terms of engineering or construction. I wound up using the Tekna Sonic stuff to tighten the bass on these.

If you are ever in SoCal, buzz me and drop by for a listen.

Best, Jim
Jim, I appreciate the offer. You own a terrific system, and what a pedigree! Regarding Comchenry's dynamics question, I don't know which speaker would be best. My gut tells me that the dynamic drivers may have the edge. Certainly in terms of loudness, the Centaurs hit a max lower than the MLogans. Perhaps a Maggie owner of 1.6s coiuld chime in to compare volume and dynamics???
I've listened to the Maggie and yes they sound nice, but I personnally found more life with the Martin's. As far as dynamics goes, try adding the Bat 3i pre and the vk200 amp. Martins are picky with equipement and after endless auditioning I found my pleasure to be Bat pre/amps, not crazy over their cd players. To all that did not care for Martins, I've been to 4 dealers who care martins and only one of the dealers was somewhat close to having them hooked with the right equip.. Good luck