If you want something very special with huge potential over your expensive MC then look for vintage MM cartridges with the best cantilevers and styli. This is the best performance for reasonable price, none of the modern MM can compete with Audio-Technica AT-ML170 (Gold-Plated Boron Cantilever and MicroLine stylus), it’s cheap compared to overpriced modern MC, but not cheap compared to some modern MM (most of them are nothing special btw). On the lower side the next model to the mighly AT-ML170 is the AT-ML150 (Beryllium Cantilever with MicroLine tip). Both cartridges will destroy all that Nagaoka, Sumiko, Grado and bla-bla-bla. Vintage AT-ML series (models 150,170,180) from the 80’s are killer MM. Industry professionals have been using them for disc mastering, read this article. Look for the cartridges with Boron or Beryllium cantilevers and the nude diamonds with the longest life-span (such as MicroLine, MicroRidge, LineContact, Shibata). Ignore the cartridges with aluminum cantilevers and elliptical diamonds they will never get you there. MM technology is not a trend of today, it was a king tech back in the 70s/80s. Ignore all the cheap MM of today, it's just a waste of time |
Cheap modern MM cartridges is like listening to music with a blanket on each speakers. A waste of time in high-end system. Much better to pay more for a decent vintage MM if you really want to find out what this technology is all about. What is "cheapo" in high-end world today ? A $100-200 cartridge is like a free gift, some good MC cost $2k, some of them cost $5k and many of them cost $15k today. I believe anything under $1k is a cheap cartridge for audiophiles. Even a brand new japanese Coreless Straight-flux MI cartridge (invented by former Grace engineer few years ago) starts from $14k, they made two models :) For about $400-900 you can find spectacular MM from the golden age. Audio-Technica is only one of them, there are Grace F9, Victor X1IIe, Stanton 881s, Pickering XSV3000 .... and these brand made higher models too, more expensive, but simply amazing. Good luck in your search and if you need help send me a message. |
I’ve heard/auditioned a good number of Koetsu, Kisekis, Miyajimas and whatnot up through the years and frankly my ART9 gives them all a run for the money. Yes, it’s exactly $1k cartridge, considered cheap MC compared to ART1000 for example (or to those $15k new ortofon:) . AT is great with their exchange policy, much better than any manufacturers, considering the price for ART9, the factory exchange (when the stylus is worn) is great option (but only from official dealers). AT150MLX is not even near the old AT-ML170 or AT-ML180 series. The statement that all new cartridges are good is false and there is absolutely no reason to stick to the new production when old available in NOS or Mint. Curious people and true audiophiles are normally comparing different equipment. Everybody knows all new models , new cartridges, the list of recommended products is the same, always. But some vintage models are unknown to most of the audiophiles, i think it’s worth to mention some great discoveries on this forum. Those gems are vanishing slowly, why the shops are full of new cartridges and will be sull of them for decades in the future. |
For that to be true the AT-ML170/180 would basically have to be the best cartridges ever made, by some margin, as to my ears the 150MLX/Sa are both reasonably close to being state of the art. Maybe they are just that, as I've never heard either, but I kinda doubt it. Or at least I doubt that it is anything even vaguely approaching an objective fact.
@agrippa They are the best, unfortunately all audiogon users who actually have them and compared them are not active anylonger here and instead we have just the basic recommendations for usual suspects. The difference between MLX series and vintage AT-ML series is obvious, the cantilever is completely different, the moving mass is different, the frequency response is different ... and so on. They are from the same manufacturer, but different legue. Highly recommended if you have not tried yet, even AT-ML150 with Beryllium cantilever is a killer MM (cheaper than AT-ML170). The AT made a lot of cartridges, my first one was ART-2000 MC, it was $600 cartridge (limited edition) and i was blown away. But the AT-ML series is much better. I am a big fan of AT, it depends how far we would like to go in upgrade. In case with MM it's better to go backward to the 80's. |
@agrippa If I remember correctly (seldom a given), the 110 and 150 share a body, as do the 200 and 300, while the body of the 500 is further improved. Nagaoka trademark called Jeweltone in Japan just like JVC called Victor in Japan (different trademark for different region) a $40 Jeweltone MP-10 is Nagaoka MP-100 but for a lower price, because it’s vintage model. The Jeweltone MP-50 is nothing but the most expensive Nagaoka PM-500 If you like Nagaone look for Jeweltone and i’m sure you can buy it cheaper. P.S. Another very cheap cartridge is Fidelity-Research FR-5e (or 5se) MM which can be found for $50 and on the right headshell can be very nice, best bang for the buck. |
@uberwalts Be hard pressed to find a good FR-5E for much less than a $100 nowadays Chakster. And nearly all I have seen for sale of late are in Russia or Japan, hard to find one here in USA.And it is a very light cart so not going to suit all arms for sure. I’ve been there, tried it years ago, i think i sold mine for $100-120 to a friend. It was better than the new Grado in the same price range. It’s lighweight, but with 13g shell it’s fine. To my ears FR-5e was better that FR-6se. You’re right that Japanese cartridges are cheaper in Japan. But in the USA you have some nice Stanton / Pickering at garage sale i hope :) The 881s is great, but on ebay it’s more expensive. @cakyol Its really not the cartridge that makes that much difference in the 300 - 400 dollar range but the stylus type. Not only stylus, but a cantilever type and effective mass also responsible for frequency response. It is possible to find vintage MM with Beryllium Pipe cantilever for example. But it’s impossible to find/buy any new cartridges with beryllium cantilever at any price (the closest is Boron). @johnnyb53
It stands to reason that the Shibata would be an even better tracker because that stylus shape was designed to track discrete quadraphonic LPs, which have the back channels modulated up to 40Khz. So my Shibata negotiaates every part of an LP flawlessly, especially when it comes to the inner groove area, where it tracks without a hint of fuzz or grunge.
Yep. Shibata is great, originally invented by JVC Victor, the X-1II was the best. |
@normansizemore Nagaoka MP-11 does not have a Boron cantilever, it's the cheapest Nagaoka in MP series, the cantilever is aluminum, read more about this model: https://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/nagaoka_mp11_e.htmlVintage MP-50 has Boron cantilever, it was thr top model back then. |
Norman, thanks. Now i see this version, interesting, never seen before, wow. Another reason why vintage is better, new versions with 3 digits number does not have Boron version for lower models. |
Personally, I prefer the conical stylus from the MP-10 for my vintage jazz Micro-groove LPs.
Why? I always prefer MicroRidge or LineContact for my vintage LPs. Nagaoka cartridges are overrated, there are much better carts from the same era. P.S. for the fans of conical tip there are Denon DL-107 MM |
I have an old moving coil Denon 103, it’s a little dark for an MC, but the midrange is killer. My other favorite is the Nagaoka MP-11 Boron, which to me sounds almost exactly like the Denon.
Maybe for certain genre of music, or maybe in a horn system ... 103 conical is definitely not my type of sound, not for everyone
Personally, I prefer the conical stylus from the MP-10 for my vintage jazz Micro-groove LPs....
Because to me the conical stylus sounds better ... It explains a lot, different preferences, indeed
Nagaoka has built almost the exact same line of cartridges for over forty years. Only subtle changes have been made. So clearly, they must be doing something right, as they are still enjoyed by many.
I believe Nagaoka / Jeweltone MP-50 or MP-500 with Boron cantilever and some nice stylus profile are good MM, not sure how many people are using them with conical tip over its LineContact. |
I have also found the Pickering XSV 3000 to an outstanding cartridge.
this is true, also Stanton 881s or higher models. don't have my XSV-3000 cartridge anymore, but still have a NOS (sealed) original Stereohedron stylus for this model . |
Denon DL 103 M arrived back from Needle Clinic with boron cantilever and micro ridge stylus.
I'm very pleased with it. I'd say it competes with MC cartridges in the $2000 + range. My total investment $650.
At this price (or very close) there are many decent original MC cartridges available with Boron Cantilever and MicroRidge diamond. What's the point to invest in Denon 103 refurbishing? I just don't understand it, sorry. |
