I use the copper bi wire WT's on my Quatro's and LOVE them. Transformative is a word that a few who know my system have used. Highly musical and never thin. Some equipment that is highly revealing can possibly sound 'thin' in the mids. I have had that with some 'silver' in my system or with gear that is considered 'fast' etc... What's thin to one may not be to others etc.. we all hear differently. Sorry it didn't workout, but I would call Johnny again. Let us know what you find out. |
No issues in length with the AQ cables. I own both 1 and 2 meter lengths and already tried the 1 and 2 on my Niagara 1000 and there was zero difference in sound.
AQ will tell you the same thing about length. I guess size doesn't matter to them. lol.
Bob is right. As you go up in price, the sound is better. Lower noise floor due to materials or size of the Teflon tubes. I own William Tell copper in 8'. It's the bi wire one and what a difference it makes. I was told by AQ that the silver version of the Robin Hood would have sounded even better than the regular Tell's. |
they may not want to sell under that. DBS is to deplete the charge from building up on the cable or something like that. I doubt length has anything to do with DBS (or visa versa).
I haven't heard those specific combo's, but the bi wire is going to work best if your speaker is made to be bi wired. I will say that you need to audition the wire to see what's best for you. |
mark, to my ears it wasn't close at all. I think with AQ the steps are larger between products than with other cable companies I audition. The Robin Hood are CRAZY CRAZY good and to me, the best value in their high end speaker cables. I just felt in my system, the Tell's were well worth the upgrade from the Hoods, but if I had the Hoods, I wouldn't even think about an upgrade. I forget the price difference, but it's not small if I recall. Garth just gets it. |
Sorry I missed all the posts. Someone asked about William Tell zero with bass vs Castle Rock. I owned Castle Rock and installed the WT zero/bass. It was a HUGE difference. It was as though I bought a new amp and preamp that were a few rungs up the ladder. It's transformative in my system. Even during burn in, I could tell what it was. They kept getting better all the way up to nearly 1000 hours. I played them for 24/7 to get to the best they could sound as quickly as possibly. I was gone for a week and let them run. My buddy was looking after the dogs, so if there were problems, he's have shut it down.
You can't even compare the older line of speaker cables to what Garth has put out here. He's working on the interconnects, but they won't have nearly the difference as the cords and speaker cables have. I run all Hurricane with WT zero/bass and a balanced WEL interconnect from DAC to integrated. I was told not to sell the WEL for the new interconnects just yet. I'll have to see how the WEL stands up vs the new ones.
AQ is a great company. I can't wait to see what Bill has in store for Golden Ear speakers. |
I'm sure it will get to another level. Guys, before you start to mix cables, you may want to call your dealer or AQ directly. I had been told not to do that as they aren't designed to be used with the other models. |
I'm getting either the William Tell or Robin Hood bi wire's tomorrow. I have Vandersteen Quatro's, Ayre AX5/20 and The Memory Player server and DAC (most current model, the DAC is their prototype and will keep getting upgrades and a new cabinet soon).
I just told my AQ Castlerock cables tonight. I heard the Tells on a larger Vandy system a few weeks ago and the Hood on a lesser system. Both were killer and a major upgrade over the older AQ speaker cables. Garth is a great guy and to me one of the top cable/cord designers going.
I have heard most of the speaker cables on the market over the last year or so. For my ear I just enjoy the AQ neutrality. I've never felt they lacked in '3D' sound. I can say that you need to spend some time with them to truly appreciate what they are doing in the system.
I too enjoy the Clarus Crimson. Perfito's nephew owns The Stereo Shop in Hartford, CT and of course they sell the Tributary's as well as the Clarus lines. You can't go wrong with either cable. Just great choices and we all win out. Thanks for sharing info guys. |
I ordered the William Tell bi wire combo for my Vandersteen Quatro's, Ayre AX5/20 and The Memory Player server/DAC. I can't wait to get them into the system. I've heard them a few times now and feel they are a GREAT value (seriously) at this price range for speaker cables. The Robin Hood's sounded incredible, but the price difference was the same as moving up to a new component. That's RARE in cables, but it's how I feel.
What are other's thoughts on the new AQ series speaker cables? |
Someone needs to get over themself, but that's for another thread.
PLEASE let's keep this on topic.
to the Clarus guys. I really liked the Crimson, but for my system, in my house, the William Tell smoked the Crimson in all respects. |
For those who know audio and build their systems properly, they need to realize that this Tru-Fi stuff is 100% marketing. Nearly every dealer I know will listen to tons of gear on a consistent basis to make sure they know what sounds best as a system.
As these threads aren't trying to be commercials, all I need to say is that my WT's are so new that they aren't even close to being burned in. I'm in amazement as I listen to them. I've had so many top cables as I've stated and nothing is even close. Even my wife commented this morning on how amazing these are. I didn't tell her I installed new cables yesterday, but she noticed right away. She started using terms like better definition, bass=deeper with more snap. She just sat and listened with me for a spell. I then told her what the difference was and she was amazed. I hide all my cables with silk plants etc.., so there was no way she noticed the new ones.
I've spoken to Garth at length about his measurements etc.., but we still need to listen to see what sounds best to us as we all hear differently. |
Burn in is going well. It's fun to hear the subtle differences as they burn. I'm so glad to have gotten these. Just amazing. |
Bo, you aren't the only one who knows audio and cables etc... I also know from my own two ears that it even gets better up til over 1000 hours. Garth will tell you the same thing if you ask him.
What you fail to also understand is that some folks won't hear as big a difference if their system isn't up to speed. I know that you and only you will use your patented system to put together the BEST components that you measure. Even if we all hear differently, your system will be the best ever. I think that sums up nearly every post you make on AG, so that's the bench mark.
Back to the real thread.
I now have 300 hours and counting and it's getting so much better. The dynamics are just insane and the depth of the sound stage is not longer truncated in the rear. I'm blown away by the quality of bass my system is now exhibiting. These cables are nothing short of sensational. I had Odin's in two months ago and they were nothing even close to what I'm hearing now. Same with the Transparent and MIT's (forget which model's but they were both in the 10k 8' run range). Friend brought them over to audition. |
I'm talking about only the copper versions. The Hood/silver are better (smoother, dynamics, detail etc) than my copper Tell's. The Tell vs Hood offer the same things over the Hood's. You have to really look at the price difference and your equipment costs to really see if the Tell is worth the move up.
I have had both in my system and the Tell's were THAT much better in everything. Many lines of cables will give you a bit better (lower noise floor/detail, dynamics yada yada) as you move up. I feel that with the new AQ line, they have given you a much larger gap between cables as you move up. They just get out of the way of the music more and more as you go to the next line in both power cords and speaker cables.
I don't fully understand all the Garth has done with these two lines, but they talk on the site about all of it. I can honestly say that going with a legit two cable, bi wire where there is a special cable just for the bass was a GAME CHANGER in MY system. It was worth more to my ears than getting a better integrated amp. It was not incremental. even my non audio friends and wife heard a tremendous difference. They didn't care, but they heard it and I never told my wife that I changed cables. She did the same thing with the Hurricanes when I got them and never said a word. She just asked what I changed since the speakers and boxes looked the same to her. |
I was doing a lot of work behind my system a few months ago and having MS, I can't do the heavy lifting etc, so I had a friend hook up my Laufer Technique Server/DAC with my new AQ Hurricane cord. I was in shock at how great the change was. I already shared that on so many threads. I've had the top cords from most companies in the system over the last year or so adn the Hurricane was best and it's not that close in most cases.
I was blown away by the sound of my system. Just happy. Well, I had to make another change in Dec and noticed that the interconnects were the Niagara balanced I used to own. I am about to put them on the market and wasn't able to find them, but forgot about it.
Wouldn't you know, he never hooked up the AQ WEL's balanced that I use. I installed the WEL's, but the fuses on my Ayre AX5/20 blew so I had to wait to get them back. I have been burning in the system for about a month now. I haven't had a chance to listen much for many reasons, but today I'm listening.
HOLY CRAP Batman!!! If anyone else's Vandersteen Quatro's sound this good, I have to hear them. As many of you know, I have heard a lot of top end gear and continue to do so. There is a lot of hyped gear that isn't all that. There are a lot of pieces that are great values and there are very very few pieces that are worth the price that list over 50k. This is my own opinion based on my own ears.
That said, this system is sick good and I'm getting the CAD grounding unit that will lower the noise floor even more. I know what it does to any price system and to me, it's a MUST. Johnny Rutan at Audio Connection in NJ let me hear it on a few pieces and it is a game changer for about 1900.00. I just called him to order mine. It's a must if you can afford one. He's the only dealer I know of, but I'm sure there are others.
In any case, with the WEL everything is better. Lower noise floor, smoother, but my dynamic. Micro and macro dynamics are just off the charts. The sound stage has snapped into place like most 30k plus speakers. I know the Hurricane's cost a bit and the new William Tell speaker cables aren't cheap. I only have the Niagara 1000, so I know I can do better there too, but not sure I will though.
Had to share how awesome the new AQ stuff is. Garth is a freaking genius. |
Thyname, you may very well be right, but I was told by someone at AQ that it was Garth heading the team that's re designing their interconnects. Either way, they are updating the line and Garth has really transformed AQ in a positive way. Even friends who didn't like AQ before, are loving the new stuff. |
We have similar cords/cables, lol. I have heard the Dragon and nearly went that route when I purchased my cords. I was buying three and one had to be a 2m so there wasn't anyway I was going that route, lol. I still need to cords for my Vandersteen speakers as they are active. I was also holding out hope that Garth would come out with a new outlet for the wall. I love the top Furetech as I heard it against the others and it was no contest.It's still amazing to me how that can affect the sound so much too. |
Sorry, been off the board a bit this week. It's a grounding device. Call Rutan about how it works etc.... He's one of a couple of dealers in the US for it. There were a few of us in the store and he was able to plug it in and pull it out during the demo's as it's a passive device. He showed it on the DAC and integrated (pre side) adn then only DAC and then only pre.... We were all blown away and heard the same thing and it was immediate.
As much as I love Johnny, I also like a lot of other dealers, but he's one of a few selling it. It's Audio Connection in Verona, NJ.
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Actually many of us do understand burn in just like you do Bo. It deals with the grain size and boundaries along with a few other details.
As for the interconnects, don't expect as big a difference in sound as the cords and speaker cables. Garth is breaking new ground and has measurements to prove this as most know.
Power is a different beast entirely. In the end, it comes down to each person's home as well as their system set up. There is signal crap as well as crap from the mains.
Bo says "This is why at this moment I do use and sell these products. They all showed a loss in a 3-dimensional stage. This is unacceptable when you judge at a 'High-end' level. It showed too much emphasis like many cable brands also reveal."
Not sure what you are saying. You say you use and sell 'these products' (which ones?), but you say they all show a loss in a 3-dimensional stage. Why would you use and sell anything that hurts the stage? I'm sure it's a language mistake. Please clarify.
The CAD device actually increased subtly the sound stage. Bob and I didn't even make comments during the first few songs, but afterwards it was obvious that we both heard the same thing. It did nothing negative.
Anyone can make up marketing hyperbole about how to listen and what to listen for, but everyone hears differently. That's the reality. Most folks hear what they are told to hear by a dealer who wants to sell gear. Many of us listen to a lot of live music and some of us have played instruments in bands and know what live music sounds like on stage.
Any audio system is a compromise. Nothing can sound like live music. We agree on many things and that includes what Garth is doing. I remember sitting with Richard Vandersteen, Johnny Rutan and Garth listening to Richards model 7's with his amp and the top AR pre. The analog was AMG. Garth had his prototype 7000 and three of his power cords. They were all in clear jackets as they were prototype's. Even without letting the cords warm up, you heard a huge difference. When he left the top cord (Dragon) in all day, it was spellbinding. We all know what the Dragon does now, but at the time there was nothing like it on the market (and still isn't to my ears).
Garth is a genius who may go down as one of the biggest innovators in audio. There are plenty of different flavored speakers, amps, servers, DAC's.....We all have favorites for whatever reason. I've yet to hear anyone not chose the new AQ cables and cords when doing A/B comparisons. That to me says it all.
Back to grounding devices. I have heard many, but hated them all. You can ask Bob how skeptical I was doing into the demo at Johnny's. Most devices just put the noise back into the system and it's why some designers float the ground. The Teleos (active) and CAD (passive) convert the crap on the line into heat. Lowering the noise floor is positive in every way as long as it doesn't change the sound. It just takes away the noise and nothing else. |
Great post Earth. I totally agree with you. Which Vandy/amp/source are you using?
I have the new Vandersteen HP5's showing up tomorrow. I'll use an analog volume control being installed in my The Memory Player (server/DAC/volume control) to drive direct since I only use digital right now. The volume control will be one of the better ones. |
Actually many of us do have a full understanding of break in Bo. It's not just you. Many of us also have great ears and can hear all the differences in time.
As for the grounding devices, I was speaking with Richard Vandersteen about this and he shared that if the electronics are designing their grounding properly, that the devices won't be needed as they won't add anything positive.
I now have his M5-HPA mono blocks (setting them up as I type this) and my server/DAC/analog volume control is also designed properly, so the CAD won't be in my future.
I'm using my WEL XLR interconnect with my William Tell Zero and WT Bass. Amps will be running directly into the wall on a dedicated 20amp circuit. I'm going to start off with Richard's power cords, but may upgrade to the Hurricane cords. I am using Hurricane on the Server/DAC. That goes into the Niagara/Hurricane power cord into another dedicated 15amp circuit. My router and cable box are powered by a dedicated LPS unit that goes into the Niagara. Router uses Wireworld ethernet cables (2) with a bespoke hospital grade filter before going into the server/DAC. That has an isolation unit built into it.
All of this still powers my Vandersteen Quatro CT's. Still need my buddy to come and put the 3" granite plinths under them. The plinth spreads out the vibrations and holds the speakers in place so they don't' move at all. It does make a positive difference in the sound. Richard walked me through this (I'll be adding washers to the rear to keep the rake in proper perspective as the tweeter will be 3" higher. Wow, I can't even believe where my system is at. Just blessed and I know it. Thanks all for letting me play. |
Jim, thanks. We need to talk on phone and catch up soon!!! I can't afford a preamp right now, lol. I'm hoping and praying that the volume control they install in my server/DAC is of the highest quality. The designer built the Melos gear back in the day. It was OUTSTANDING sound wise, but broke down constantly. He's fixed all of that now and his designs are sublimed. We will see. I also need to get an electrician into my listening room to run conduits for the two dedicated circuits in the room that are on an adjoining wall. I moved the system 10 years ago and just never moved the circuits. I now have no choice as I don't have enough outlets on that wall to plug in the speakers, mono's AND the Niagara. Can't plug one mono into the Niagara and the other directly into the wall, lol... I'll have him put one circuit behind each speaker for the mono blocks and speakers and then a four pack behind the TV/server area for the Niagara and router/LPS unit that run that and the cable box, lol. I also just realized that I can't use my Hurricane cords on the Mono blocks due to them being 15amp and the amps being 20amp. DARN IT TO HECK!!! |
WOW, what a ride. New update:
I basically have sold all my cables and cords. I have a 2m Hurricane and 2m Basic power cord and Niagara 1000 that I'll soon put up for sale I think (unless I use it in my second system).
New set up is as follows:
Niagara 3000 with Dragon power cord into an Edison outlet that is on it's own circuit. All other power cords are Hurricane's and that includes on my Quatro's for the sub bass.
I use a Horizon (WEL Signatures first year's name, but identical to the WEL Signature) and the Fire IC into the Vandersteen M5-HPA mono's. Still using The Memory Player server with built in DAC and analog volume control. I'll be selling my digital soon and moving into something else (auditioning a few things)
I also am using the Fog Lifters. I have heard that at a dealer and the demo was great. Heard the slight (very slight) difference. They help manage the cable runs.
Still burning in. |
Still burning, but man does this system sound better than anything I imagined I could afford. The new AQ line of cables is my favorite and that includes the even more expensive lines from some of the smaller companies that I've heard in my system. |
All burned in. Holy crap is this bliss. I can't believe how GREAT the Dragon cable from the Niagara 3000 to the dedicated outlet (Edison outlets) sounds. I installed my older Hurricane and kept going back and forth over the lsat week. The Dragon at that one choke point makes. a WORLD of difference. So inky black quiet with amazing micro and macro dynamics. All the AQ cables are neutral. Is the Dragon worth the price increase over the Hurricane? To my ears it's like an upgraded component. I didn't think it would have that big a difference. It should when you consider the price difference, but we all know cables/cords can only do just so much, but if your system let's you hear the differences and can scale, this will be a good way to see how much it will scale. I'd still look to upgrade a preamp or source before going to a Dragon from another cord, but at this level, you may need to go up 10k in a speaker or preamp. JMHO |
That reminds me. I need to list my 2m pair of Hurricanes and the Niagara 1000. Thanks. |
I bought the WT Silver true bi wire ((Zero and main cable). I loved the Thunderbird, but I felt the WT Silver were more neutral in my system and room. They seem more open with a better defined stage, including depth. Just so smooth with zero fatigue. Voices seemed a bit better fleshed out. I was listening/auditioning in shop, so not my main system.
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