Hey folks, chill a little, here, please. In just 37 posts what could have been a really useful discussion broke down to the standard "You don't want to hear what I'm saying, so I won't talk to you anymore, and further more (fill in the insult of your choice here)". But dammit, both sides have the same problem - a question to which they do not have an answer.
There is in this thread the illustration of the "musicality" of tube amps, and the observation that they apparently have higher levels of harmonic "distortion" in the lower harmonics. I'm neither a scientist, nor a fully qualified audiophile, but even I can imagine a possibility - that tube amps can pass thru more of the harmonics of the instrument than solid state does. Their inherent harmonic distortion amplifies those harmonics of the instrument (it's a guess, here folks - please see above disclaimer). My point here is that any scientist should be able to demonstrate that this is or is not physically possible, if not precisely "true". And develop theories of why it could be true, if present science can't absolutely prove/disprove the effect. The one illustration of a double bind test where differences in power cords were detected with a surprising degree of accuracy (and 100% is not the standard for reliability in such a test) should be written up and published, so such a test can be examined and duplicated (and if the participants can't write it up in standard scientific format, perhaps an objectivist could lend a hand?). The possibility that the "Golden Ears" actually can hear things others can not must be examined. Lord knows my spouse can hear things I don't! I mean, there's alot going on that just plain requires a whole lot more study. Which leads us to the plain and simple fact that study costs money and requires resources and organization that a group of hobbiests assembled on an internet usegroup just isn't all that likely to be able to assemble. It's a noble cause, we have all the knights and shining armor we require, we just lack Camelot and the King to pull it all together. I liken basic scientific research to feudal times - lots of fiefs, some grander than others, and lots of feuds, some pettier than others, but lacking a cohesive, central thrust that would unite the effort into a totally effective force. Instead, we have to pull the disparate pieces together to effect a desired outcome. I don't know this for a fact, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that when I pay a seemingly exhorbitant price for a piece of gear, I'm not paying merely for the assembled components, but rather the bulk of the cost is for the research that led the design team to assemble the components in the way that they did. I'd be interested in knowing more about the history of Canada's famed anechoic chamber, for example. It's a potential model for the type of facility I think we need in audio to fully develop the potential for accurate sound reproduction. I just wonder if the economics exist for such a project?
Well, anyway, let's among ourselves drop the swords and daggers, try to overlook the real and imagined slights in the interest of extracting the intent and valuable content of a given post, and above all continue to help one another extract the best from what the audio gods have given us thus far.
and if you don't, you blithering idiot, I'll flame the bejesus outta ya ;-)
chas
There is in this thread the illustration of the "musicality" of tube amps, and the observation that they apparently have higher levels of harmonic "distortion" in the lower harmonics. I'm neither a scientist, nor a fully qualified audiophile, but even I can imagine a possibility - that tube amps can pass thru more of the harmonics of the instrument than solid state does. Their inherent harmonic distortion amplifies those harmonics of the instrument (it's a guess, here folks - please see above disclaimer). My point here is that any scientist should be able to demonstrate that this is or is not physically possible, if not precisely "true". And develop theories of why it could be true, if present science can't absolutely prove/disprove the effect. The one illustration of a double bind test where differences in power cords were detected with a surprising degree of accuracy (and 100% is not the standard for reliability in such a test) should be written up and published, so such a test can be examined and duplicated (and if the participants can't write it up in standard scientific format, perhaps an objectivist could lend a hand?). The possibility that the "Golden Ears" actually can hear things others can not must be examined. Lord knows my spouse can hear things I don't! I mean, there's alot going on that just plain requires a whole lot more study. Which leads us to the plain and simple fact that study costs money and requires resources and organization that a group of hobbiests assembled on an internet usegroup just isn't all that likely to be able to assemble. It's a noble cause, we have all the knights and shining armor we require, we just lack Camelot and the King to pull it all together. I liken basic scientific research to feudal times - lots of fiefs, some grander than others, and lots of feuds, some pettier than others, but lacking a cohesive, central thrust that would unite the effort into a totally effective force. Instead, we have to pull the disparate pieces together to effect a desired outcome. I don't know this for a fact, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that when I pay a seemingly exhorbitant price for a piece of gear, I'm not paying merely for the assembled components, but rather the bulk of the cost is for the research that led the design team to assemble the components in the way that they did. I'd be interested in knowing more about the history of Canada's famed anechoic chamber, for example. It's a potential model for the type of facility I think we need in audio to fully develop the potential for accurate sound reproduction. I just wonder if the economics exist for such a project?
Well, anyway, let's among ourselves drop the swords and daggers, try to overlook the real and imagined slights in the interest of extracting the intent and valuable content of a given post, and above all continue to help one another extract the best from what the audio gods have given us thus far.
and if you don't, you blithering idiot, I'll flame the bejesus outta ya ;-)
chas