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Aqua La Scala Optologic Mk2 on the cheap, used and sub $3000?

I’ve had a great time with a borrowed Aqua La Scala Optologic in my system. Played with the Antipodes CX / Ex combo (also borrowed) the sound was sublime, palpable and emotionally connected me to the music. Given the evolution of digital and the significant depreciation involved, I’m a real fan of used at the moment.

I picked up a good deal on a 1TB Innuos Zen MKiii. With my current Ayre Codex, it’s decent, but nowhere in the same league as the Aqua. The Aqua design appeals for a couple of other reasons:

1) I believe R2R is a better way forward on PCM, it just sounds right!
2) I’m heavily invested in high Rez (SACD) and I require that ability
3) I firmly believe the more you transform the bits, the more damage you can do the the SQ. Therefore I don’t want to have Roon convert DSD to PCM on the fly. For me, The DAC needs to handle DSD natively.

If it wasn’t for the DSD, a MHDT Orchid modded by Grannyring, or the Tubadour iii SE are highly regarded music makers and easy choices. What then with R2R and native DSD at a more economical used price point? (The La Scala sells for approximately $4k)

Sure there is the Aqua La Voice S3, for the $1000 less used, I’m told the La Scala is the better value in spite of the cost differential. Part of the cost of the Aqua line is on the ability of the boards to be upgraded, the other is labor costs in Italy verses the Orient. Too bad these other guys don’t offer DSD!

I’ve heard the Lampi Amber 3 might be a good choice, though I’ve also heard it’s a little more forward particularly with PCM. Getting the overall timbre color and tonality correct (the meat on the bones if you will) is really important to me, if the DAC gets this right, usually lesser recordings are more listenable. So what else is there?


ianderson
hudsonhawk
137 posts
 
I firmly believe the more you transform the bits, the more damage you can do the the SQ. Therefore I don’t want to have Roon convert DSD to PCM on the fly. For me, The DAC needs to handle DSD natively.
While this is accurate, to my understanding no DAC can truly handle both PCM and DSD natively. So if you have a delta-sigma DAC, it will usually be preceded by a CMOS chip that’s converting PCM to DSD or some equivalent native bitstream. So for example for me, I have a Doge 7 DAC that has an ESS Sabre ES9018. Its CMOS chip will transcode any PCM coming in, so for me there are pretty big gains by transcoding everything in Roon to DSD.

Just pointing out that what you lay out is absolutely a noble goal but the best performance for you is going to be highly dependent on the architecture of the DAC that you end up getting and what the format of the music is that you most often play.
nquery
103 posts
 
@hudsonhawk You are right that most (delta sigma) chip based solutions would  converge pcm/DSD to a single bitstream at some point internally. And you are right that at the end of they day it's more about overall execution than technology. I used to be a stickler for the purity of R2R (chip or discrete ladder) but have since realized that there is more to it than that.

That said, there are some R2R dacs with separate paths for PCM vs native DSD that might meet the OP's goals. Lampi became first known with their dedicated DSD R2R dacs I believe. Some of the Denafrips R2R ladder Dacs do both PCM and DSD.  And the Holo Dacs most definitely have separate R2R ladder circuits for PCM vs DSD. I think this is one of their perceived values. And they allow for OS vs NOS modes as well - most prefer NOS. A discrete NOS R2R ladder DSD process would be as close to the pure DSD playback the OP is looking for. The new Holo May looks intriguing but starts at $3800.


ianderson OP
90 posts
 
“Check out the new Rockna Wavelight“

ive heard very good things about the Rockna gear. Unfortunately there is precious little used in the market place yet. If one comes up, I’d be happy to take a run at it. 
ianderson OP
90 posts
 
@hudsonhawk where “While this is accurate, to my understanding no DAC can truly handle both PCM and DSD natively”

I agree with @nquery

You’re right only in the context of a single DAC engine. However there are DAC’s that do both natively, what you’re looking at is 2 DAC’s built in. There has to be a detector that sniffs out the incoming signal and and determines if it’s DSD, or PCM. Usually this is done in conjunction with a FPGA chip which will process the DSD directly, else it will send the signal to the R2R circuit.
ianderson OP
90 posts
 
@nquery “Holo Spring 2 LIII DAC is R2R and does native dsd well and works best in NOS mode. (The new Holo May is above the price point and won't be found used for a while)”

I think your Holo Spring is a very good suggestion, (at least as a good starting point) while the May version as you say is to new to see them on the open market yet used. However the Kitsume L3 would on paper seam to be a good one to try.

Has anyone compared the Holo to the Aqua La Scala? For me, DSD is off the charts musical bliss on the Aqua. Yet PCM is also beautiful, particularly higher Rez, even Redbook is great, if anything it errors on the slightly warmer side of neutral. This means lessor recording are still pleasantly listenable. I score high marks for that! 

@grannyring I’m with you on the sonic gymnastics - for me, it tires my ears. This is why I’m heavily invested in analog, be it Vinyl or Tape, I can get lost in it for hours on end and all it does is pull me further into the music. I’m looking for Digital to do the same thing.
I think you’ve heard the Aqua La Scala Optologic? Did you compare it directly to the Mojo Audio? If so, was the Mojo the better performer?

i just wish more folks would cater to us DSD guys and add this functionality to their marvellous R2R DAC's like the Mojo Audio Mystique! 
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