Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD

In that price range, based on your desire for a musical sounding dac I would vote for the Vitus RD-100. Vitus pushed this Reference series dac such that it sounds better than even the previous SCD-010 cdp in the Signature Series! It uses modular design like the Signature series also, meaning the dac can be easily upgraded in the field as upgraded modules become available in future (as opposed to a whole component upgrade). The RD-100 also has Vitus's relay-based volume control & can be used as a linestage in a simple rig. There are a couple of reviews out which are worth a read. That would be my pick anyway.

07-18-14: Audiolabyrinth
Matt, when you listened to the Romulas at audio-connections, what was your impressions?

Hi Al, I own a 240v (Australian-delivery) Romulus, 2nd owner, low hours in excellent condition which I will be putting up on the 'Gon in 1-2 months. It's a great player that sounds very natural and un-digital. Just an fyi!

08-08-14: Audiolabyrinth
Melbguy1, welcome to this great thread, are you going for the vitus player?

Thank you kindly AL! You guessed right. I plan on upgrading to a Vitus Signature Series spinner (SCD-025) for synergy with my SIA-025, though i'm waiting on a new DSD USB board to be released in a couple of months. Imho it is the most musical sounding single box player in the world, but of course is not cheap!

08-10-14: Audiolabyrinth
Congrats are in full order Melbguy1 on your Vitus singnature series SCD-025 you will be getting, I would like for you to do a review of the player on the Tara Labs Thread when you get your final impressions of the player after burn-in, cheers Melbguy1.

Thanks for your generous comments AL. Yes once the Vitus reaches 250hrs I will probably post a review, though in a separate review thread. Best to keep your Tara Labs thread a discussion about their products. The SCD-025 will club my old Ayon CD-5s like a baby seal!

08-10-14: Mattnshilp
The Vitus looks amazing and I'm sure it sounds it as well. Congrats. Feel free to post some thoughts on its sound here as well.

Thanks for your comments Matt. The SCD-025 takes the sound of cd's to a place heretofore unknown in the digital domain. Especially in concert with the SIA-025 i've heard this combo sound haunting. At that point i'll probably post a system thread, but will leave an in-depth review until the 250hr mark.

Thanks for the heads up Guido! The K-01X looks like a pretty killer player given it is based on the flagaship Grandioso. This new model with DSD USB input would have to be regarded as one of the top single box players in the high end market. The free media player download is a good idea as well.

Keith, it serves you right buying a CD player from a Barbecue store! :D

ps: Matt, if you're looking for a good value high end S/PDIF cable, i'd recommend the Jorma digital cable which is excellent value imho. 2nd choice would be the Nordost Valhalla 2, though i'd take the Jorma every time. You can buy this cable new from The Cable Co for $1100 & even try it out to see if you like it!

Erkminer, I read Jeff Fritz is smitten with the Devialet amps as well.

09-08-14: Charles1dad
Mtruong34,
Different perspectives I imagine. You're unmarried, I've been very happily married 27 years. My wife has a wonderful wit and sense of humor and would understand Agear's context and find the comments funny.Agear your wife seems to have a wry sense of humor and gets it. Neither would need well meaning but condescending defense of their gender. They can handle it and dish it out.
Charles,

You're pretty opinionated and don't seem to mind sticking your nose into very personal subject matter. Then again, you're about as subtle as a bull in a china shop. Stop acting like a self-appointed Moderator!

Sorry, is this thread about getting recommendations for a top tier dac for rbcd's or wiring an audio room? Seems like this thread has lost the plot..

Matt, yeah VA have many more Dealers in Europe, but only 3 Dealers currently in the US. Here is a link to US Dealers fyi -http://www.vitusaudio.com/en/80211-North-America

Charles, cheers. I tend to gravitate towards less analytical, more musical cd player/dacs. On reflection, all of my previous cd players have fallen into the latter category including my JVC XL-Z1050, Ayon CD-5, modded/re-tubed Ayon CD-5s & current Aesthetix Romulus. My litmus test as to whether I like the sound of a dac or cd player is whether I feel connected to the music, the sound is smooth and unfatiguing & it brings a smile to my face.

10-04-14: Charles1dad
Mel,a good friend of mine has the Aesthetix Romulus Signature and I've listened to it often(it replaced his good sounding Modwright Oppo 105 and then his Lampizator DAC, very good).The Romulus is truly a natural sounding and passionate music reproducer.
Charles,

Charles, I agree with your description of the sound of the Aesthetix. I actually considered upgrading to the Signature version, however the 9v pre-out is not a good match with my Vitus SIA-025 which likes a lower gain. After reading about Grannyring's system I also considered his fairly full on mods, but experience has taught me you don't get your money back when you move it on. I think i'm making the right call upgrading to a Vitus SCD-025 with the new DSD upgrade.

Grannyring, I was really impressed when I saw your system. It looks like you do brilliant work. That is the nicest Romulus I've seen, so yes in your case I can see how you're come out square in most cases. Though for most punters, certainly in my case I found that even with a good Audio Engineer doing the mods, I still lost money on the mod side when I sold my player. Ymmv. I'm content that my next player will not need any modding. Cheers.

Joe, don't worry, I used to be in the modder's camp as well & highly modified my previous Ayon CD-5s with great results. I'm also sure I could get great results modding my Romulus like Grannyring. But every component has it's limitations, and not trying to be cocky, but the Vitus SCD-025 is on another level even to Grannyring's player (especially in synergy with the SIA-025). That player doesn't need to be modded and obviously given VA's excellent engineering and reputation, solid resale is assured. That said, I kept my JVC XL-Z1050 for 18 years before I upgraded. And given the Vitus's modular architecture, that player could do me for the next 20+ years with updates.

Yeah, you're a legend in your own lunchbox Audiolabyrinth. Real cool.

Steve, thanks for your input. It's not a simple equation!

I mentioned the Vitus RD-100 dac earlier, but I have to say that as my current Vitus SCD-025Mk2 dac plays in, I have been astonished at how resolving and analogue-like this dac is. I previously owned one of the best Delta Sigma dacs ever made; a Vimak DS-1800Mk2, and the Vitus is on a whole nuther level. The SCD-025Mk2 is essentially a full Signature series dac, with a heavily modded Phillips Pro2LF transport. Vitus use ADI1955 dac chips, a new in-house designed & built upgradeable master clock, new I/V converter, new analogue modules etc and is basically a whole new beast. Vitus use sample rate conversion and achieve a sample rate of 384kHz with 24bit resolution. The analogue stages are taken from the SL-102 preamp & the multi-regulated power supplies are built around very efficient UI-core transformers (ala their Signature series power amps). It is a top flight dac & deserves to be playing at the top level of RB standard converters.

Matt, yeah the SCD-025Mk2 is a wonderful sounding rb dac. Of the other dacs you mentioned, I've only had direct experience with the Soulution 500 & 700 series spinners & CH D1 with the optional dac board. Of course I really liked the Soulution 745 which sounded amazingly smooth, resolving and musical, though not cheap!

I also run a Vitus SIA-025 integrated which is a lovely integrated & had planned on upgrading to the new SS-025 power amp & SL-102 pre, but re-ordered my priorities and am now upgrading my speakers to Magico S7's which I think will give me a bigger improvement.

@Hew, hopefully. I'm with Mike. The current interface is incredibly frustrating, having to log in twice in a row between the old and new platform!

Speaking of DSD, I just picked up an FIM DXD cd which was recorded AND mastered in 24-bit 352.8 kHz resolution onto a 99.9999% silver disc. I accept that my Vitus SCD-025Mk2 cdp will still be playing that in RB standard, but it should be a great recording which I think it is more important than the format imho.

Hi Matt, yes i'm aware of DXD's original purpose as editing software in the mastering process. Though FIM for one have taken that a lot further & record, edit & master their cd's in DXD onto extremely pure precision-cut silver discs. Of course that is down-converted to PCM & is playable on RBCD players. But my ears tell me the sound is stunning. Very undigital as I imagine DSD would sound. My Vitus gear obviously helps. XRCD24 discs are also amazing..even my parents who have no clue about audiophilia noticed the difference. Obviously native double or quad DSD should be superior given a great DSD dac like Mike's Lampi, but I definitely feel like I want for nothing with the vast number of audiophile RBCD formats including DXD, XRCD, K2HD, SHM & Mofi 24kt gold cd's. Plus I love handling the media, reading the liner notes & spinning the disc...something you can't do with downloads.

10-23-15: Georgelofi

Ricevs right, the AD1955 is bit of a hybrid a 5bit Multibit and Delta Sigma, no R2R ladder. And far cheaper to manufacture than say a real R2R Ladder like the PCM1704K.

Sounds like an each way bet on the cheap, trying to get what Multibit can do yet still do DSD.

Cheers George

George, my view is it is not fair to judge a dac chip by itself without considering the overall quality of the dac & skill of the Designer (ie: implementation). I own a Vitus SCD-025Mk2 which is a $20kEUR dac/cdp which I can say hand on heart is the best single box cd player i've heard (including a CH D1 with the dac option & Accuphase DP-700).

As a dac, the Vitus bested my previous Vimak DS-1800Mk2 which I regard as the best Delta Sigma dac ever made. I also previously owned a highly modded Ayon CD-5s which uses a quad of BB PCM-1704k chips. I enjoyed my time with the Ayon which did some things very well & was a fun player, though the Vitus is in another league altogether.

LOl, well said Matt. In the end, all that matters is the sound to the listener and how the product fits into the audiophile's system for synergy.

George, I think what you're espousing is a clear, laser-cut preference toward ladder/R-2R multibit and/or discrete dac chips to the exclusion of delta-sigma type dacs. It's a free world and this is an open forum. But I think there are other forums and threads where punters can read unbiased, objective commentary free of vested interests.

And since all delta-sigma based dacs didn't make it on your list, I'll check out and find another thread where it's not a closed book.

George, really who cares? You put waaayyy too much stock in the importance of the dac chip in the overall sound a dac produces. Vitus Audio compared all the best dac chips, including the BB PCM-1704k and TDA-1541A double crown and found the AD1955 chip no better or worse that the others. It was a slight shade vs night/day difference & VA went with the dac chips that best suited their needs.

Now you may question my knowledge which is fair enough as i'm not an Audio Engineer. But this came straight from Hans Ole Vitus during the Copenhagen High End show - "Overall the dac gives very little to the complete sound. Even digital part in total I rate gives not more than about 15% or so to complete sound. PSU and analog stage combined with pcb layout matters more".

I return to what I said before, a dac is more than a dac chip. It depends on the skill of the designer, the overall quality of the dac & ultimately on implementation (how the dacs are used in the overall circuit design).

I commented earlier which vaunted dacs the Vitus accounted for. It deserves its place amongst the best single box dacs in the world...using AD1955 dac chips. Have a good day.

08-11-14: Mattnshilp
Thanks Melbguy1, for bringing up a nice option. I'm sure some readers will definitely look into the SCD-025 with your suggestion. What is the retail?

08-11-14: Bill_k
Matt - I couldn't find confirmed US pricing but the SCD-025 sells for £16,500 in the UK which converts to ~$27,700 US.

YW Matt, here is a link to the VA price list in Euro's (current as at July, 2014); http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CEEQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dptrade.it%2Flistini%2Flistino_vitusaudio.pdf&ei=tA3pU-ijCpa48gWZ8YKABg&usg=AFQjCNEqxRO7wHh4QqYA59FfbJjhTT8gPg&bvm=bv.72676100,d.dGc&cad=rja. The SCD-025 is currently $19,000EUR with VAT which equates to around $25,500USD. The SCD-025 is currently the Signature Series dac. As Hans recently told me, they designed the SCD-025 essentially as a full Signature Series dac with a drive, albeit a heavily modified Phillips Pro 2 LF! And its fully modular architecture also permits the player to be converted to a Signature Series dac (minus drive) if VA release such a product in future, and indeed it has been designed with this possibility in mind. Also should updated modules become available in future, the player can be updated in the field by a competent audio engineer.

Btw, the earlier mentioned Vitus RD-100 is an absolutely terrific bargain at $9,500EUR (approx $12,713USD). It has true analogue inputs (no conversion to digital) and Vitus's relay-based volume control. It is also designed with a modular architecture like the Signature Series making it future proof.

AL, just to correct you regarding the 'ping' on Ayon spinners when you press play or change inputs, that 'ping' sound comes from the 6H30 tube filament and is very normal. Ayon do not use any negative feedback or compensators to erase tube noise or hum or something like as most other manufacturers are doing.

Ayon are taking a pure approach. To use negative feedback in the circuit – the sound decreases a lot.

Getting the thread back on track, the thread title is " Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD". I vote for the Vitus MP-D201. I have never heard normal garden variety cd's sound at once so incredibly resolving, smooth, analogue-sounding and tube-like in character. In a word; musical. Moreover, this dac allows you to listen to even rock cd's from the 80's for hours without fatigue. I would say the MP-D201 is atleast 15% better than the Signature Series dac in the SCD-025 (which is already an awesome dac).

10-03-14: Bill_k
Melbguy1 - I'd be curious to know whether you've had the chance to audition the recently introduced Berkeley Reference DAC, and how it compares to the Vitus. It's priced at $16K but is supposed to be a new standard which excels at PCM decoding. Thanks in advance for your input!

Bill, I haven't heard the new Berkely Reference dac, though I had a read up on it. It sounds like it is firmly in the digital/resolution camp (ie: in the same catagory as msb, dcs, emm ect..very detailed but zero groove). Resolution and accuracy are important, but that means nothing if the music is missing soul and emotions. Tube dacs tend to excel at soul and emotions, whilst ss dacs like DCS excel at resolution/accuracy. Vitus is somewhere in the middle, kind of best of both worlds. Though in terms of engineering and build quality, you would not compare tubes to a Vitus product, unless you're talking about Kondo or something like that.

The comparative dacs price-wise in the Vitus line up are the RD-100 (which is a good option if you need a preamp), or new RCD-101 sacd player. Compared to the previous model (RCD-100) the RCD-101 has had an extensive rework including DSD/SACD compatability, a brand new sony drive, better power supply and a much improved dac section. This is now pretty much on par with the RD-100 sonically and amazingly, as good as the old Signature series SCD-010.

If manufacturers of servers adhere to the UPnP or DLNA protocol, the inherent advantages of a server become moot. Here's why. Data in a UPnP system is sent in packetized, asynchronous form, meaning that it has to be buffered on both ends and has no clock signal embedded in it. So there's no jitter and no difference in the data on either end unless the server or the network is having problems. That's the technical advantage: it removes the problems associated with digital transmission and always provides the best possible data to the renderer ("DAC"). Variables are a bad thing. Just rip your music with good, high quality ripping software and your music should be worry-free.

Servers have some advantages, but are not a perfect solution. They have limited storage capacity and in many cases have the DAC and analog section in the same chassis with a noisy computer server. This is why Boulder adopted the UPnP protocol instead: any true media server can be used, the interface is universal and plug and play, and the server itself has no impact on sound quality because it's streamed asynchronously over ethernet.

The key is implementation. Boulder built the 1021 network player with a UPnP-compliant renderer and optimize the player to stream music. And their own tests comparing high res rips over ethernet vs the same cd played on the 1021 demonstrated ripped music sounds better in most cases (and keep in mind the 1021 is one of the few disc spinners which buffers the music).

With that said, I think servers have enormous potential if you accept their limitations, and if you look at the current top dogs such as the Aurender W20 & The Beast, we wont have long to wait for a real game changer to hit the market.