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Up to the Minute: Streaming Bits to Audiophile DAC

I have some unanswered questions from another thread, and also some new ones despite searching the archives. So I hope this thread might be a good place for all of us who are interested in state of the art audio quality from hard disk drive based files.

Kublakhan in another thread suggested using the Sweetwater Creation Stations as hardware for a PC based audio solution and so far this gear looks pretty good to me.

My questions, however, arise from the fact that there may be some disconnect between the conventions for "pro audio" and "audiophile" audio.

So as of this writing, can anyone please explain:

Why does every pro audio person seem confused when I tell them I want to use an external DAC?

What is the BEST way to extract bit for bit data from a hard drive, to export to an audiophile DAC?

Why oh why do expensive $$$ music or media servers, which are supposedly configured to optimize audio use, nonetheless require some sort of cheapo "interface" to stream the data into an audiophile DAC?

Why on earth would I want to buy an audiophile "sound card", which I presume (in addition to an "interface") also has its own DAC?

Given the options which are available for "sound card" and/or "interface" type devices, what is the BEST way to tap the bitstream and/or maximize performance of the audiophile DAC? Optical? TOSLINK? Spdif?

Given the choices I might have for the "interface" between the computer and the DAC, what is the BEST way to minimized "jitter" or other audiophile nasties? Or is that phenomenon more of a downstream issue AFTER the bitstream hits the DAC?

There is a lot of great information in the other threads about ripping, tagging, Foobar vs Itunes and a million other complications of hard drive based audio.

But for now, I would really appreciate just some basic, conclusive opinions on the best way to get bits off the hard drive and safely on their way to my speakers from an audiophile DAC.

Please advise.

THANK YOU.
cwlondon
cwlondon OP
1,210 posts
 
Well the increasingly heated debate here suggest to me that this puzzle still isn't solved.

I am still frustrated and confused as to why we cant export bit perfect WAV files from a well built custom computer into an audiophile DAC and otherwise FORGET all these cheapo sound cards, crap power supplies, jitter inducing processes and arcane acronyms that I associate with mass produced plastic computers.

As this is supposed to be an "up to the minute" thread...please do continue.

Anyone?

Does the Benchmark DAC work well for this now? Or does it need "mods"? WHy does it need "mods"?

Is the Zanden "pricey like hell" because it is some weird tweako hand made limited production voodoo product and/or one of the few in the world that happens to have IS2?

Are the bigger manufacturers of DACs not listening? Why wouldnt every DAC maker in town be thinking that the world is starting to use hard drives for music and maybe it might be worth a second thought and the extra 50 cents to add an IS2 input to their 5 figure high margin DACs?

I rarely like digital music of any kind, so this set up is more for convenience and archival purposes than trying to outperform my Rockport reference turntable.

Again, if anyone knows how to export a WAV file bit stream into a reasonably priced decent performing DAC without a lot of extra steps and garbage, either electronically or scientifically, or placing a special order to some garage manufacturer who never answers his phone, please let us know.

Cheers

Cwlondon
ckorody
643 posts
 
As to why the industry is not responding - now there is a million dollar question...

Given that every level of the consumer electronics business (in which for this purpose I include our noble pursuit) are constantly looking for the next great thing to stimuate sales, you would think that at the very least these kinds of capabilities would make for a fine line extension.

One can only assume that the old guard and its customers are computer illiterate (which is a somewhat generational phenom) and that everyone else is trying to figure out how to hitch their wagon to the iPod shooting star...
audioengr
3,282 posts
 
I put up a long post answering this, but it seems to have dissappeared....

The short answer is that most manufacturers dont know how to design this and they are also afraid of starting a new I2S standard. Of the few that are doing USB interfaces on DAC's only a couple know what chips to use for best sound and some even put S/PDIF in the middle because they evidently dont know how I2S works.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Manufacturer
cwlondon OP
1,210 posts
 
Cokorody and Steve N

Thanks for the observations.

Now where do we stand on best execution, please?
audioengr
3,282 posts
 
Best execution. Well, I'm of course biased because I build these things, but contrary to popular belief, it is possible to build a world-class I2S interface that is external for both Wi-Fi and USB. However, there can also be advantages to burying it in the DAC.

Best Execution is probably USB to I2S currently because the chips are just better, particularly the TAS1020A and the TUSB3200 from TI. Wi-Fi does not perform as well due to the 270X chipset. Wi-Fi is also limited to 16/44.1. The best results from these chips requires a good custom S/W driver. The PC drivers are just not any good, so far. Chips like the 270X series work with the native PC drivers, but they sound crappy IMO.

Chips aside, the implementation of the USB interface, clocking and the I2S interface is critical to getting low-jitter results. The circuit design is critical to getting no pops or DC out of the DAC when the power or USB cable is pulled. This is why most designers cannot pull-off external I2S. It's tricky.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Manufacturer
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