Need help finding cause of hum


I'd appreciate input on something I just noticed. The right channel of my system is producing a very soft, low level (low db) hum right on power up and with the volume all the way down. It's only noticeable with your ear an inch from the midrange/bass driver. It doesn't change level if the volume is increased. It is not audible when playing music. It has done this with 2 different amps (1 brand new). It does this whether or not input sources are connected. It does this whether the ground between TT and phono-pre is connected or not. When I switched the left speaker/cable to the right amp output and right speaker/cable to the left output - the hum moved to the left. So I thought, hmmm, problem with amp. But it is now doing this with a brand new amp. When I reversed speaker placement (Right to Left & Left to Right) - cables staying in place - the hum stayed on the right coming out of what had been the left channel speaker. The hum is only heard on the right. The left is totally silent. I usually run the amp plugged into one wall outlet and other gear out of an APC H10 power conditioner plugged into a different outlet on that wall. I tried plugging the amp into the amp power outlet on the back of the APC but the hum remained. I tried plugging both pieces (H10 & amp) into the same wall outlet. The hum remained. I thought this might be some type of ground loop hum but from what I've read, it doesn't seem consistent. It is only out of the right channel and barely audible. It is more a curiosity than annoyance at this point but I am concerned about the possibility of some sort of induced, stray current causing damage. Any ideas you might provide will be very much appreciated.
128x128ghosthouse
Ghosthouse -- thanks for the clarification. You've gotten some good suggestions to pursue. I'll just add a couple of thoughts:

1)If the problem is caused by magnetic field induction, I doubt that it would be induction into the speaker cables, due to the low impedances which are present there (especially the amp output impedance, as well as the speaker load impedance).

It could, however, conceivably be magnetic field interaction directly into internal amp circuit points. It's probably worth trying to move the amp, even though it appears that nothing had changed in the house when the problem arose.

2) While you are pursuing Newbee's good suggestion, keep in mind that a very common cause of hum, assuming your interconnects are unbalanced rca's, results from the fact that the shields of those interconnects serve two functions. They serve as the return path for signal currents flowing between the connected components, and they also tie together the chassis of the connected components, which in turn are connected to ac safety ground (if the components have 3-prong plugs). AC safety ground, in turn, is connected to ac neutral back at the service panel in the house. What that all means is that if the ac safety ground potentials (voltages) to the two components are slightly different, unwanted currents will flow through the interconnect shields as a result (at the 60 Hz power line frequency and its harmonics), which the destination component will have no way of distinguishing from desired signal, thus resulting in hum.

The ways of minimizing that effect, if it is the cause of the problem, are to use interconnects with the lowest possible shield resistance (meaning they should be both short and high quality), and by keeping the safety grounds as common as possible (meaning don't have the power plugs isolated from each other by the power conditioner or by being plugged into ac outlets that are separated by significant wiring). You could also try isolating all of the safety grounds (other than the one for the amp, which should remain connected for safety purposes) using cheater plugs, or 3-prong to 2-prong adapters with the safety ground connection not connected.

There are advantages, as you realize, to having some degree of isolation between the ac to the amp and the ac to low-level components, and between digital and analog components, but that trades off against this increased possibility of hum. Trial-and-error is commonly the only way to optimize this trade-off.

Hope that helps,
-- Al
Al - Thanks for your reply. A lot to digest, but I'm thinking a ground loop isn't the cause. Wouldn't that cause hum in both channels? and at a higher volume? ALSO - I can hear the hum with only amp and speakers connected - no sources connected to the amp. Thanks again.
Ghosthouse, is the preamp selector on phono when this hum occurs. If so check the wires on your cartridge are seated all the way on cartridge prongs. You may also want to try cheater plugs. Good luck...Bill
Al - Thanks for your reply. A lot to digest, but I'm thinking a ground loop isn't the cause. Wouldn't that cause hum in both channels? and at a higher volume? ALSO - I can hear the hum with only amp and speakers connected - no sources connected to the amp. Thanks again.

Both channels -- yes most likely. Higher volume -- not necessarily; it could be just about any level depending on the ground voltage differentials, impedance levels, etc.

Also, when you disconnect all the inputs it would be a good idea to put a pair of shorting plugs on the inputs. Otherwise your results may be confused by hum pickup from stray electromagnetic fields, to which the amp would be susceptible when the inputs are open and hence high impedance.

Basically, at this point I'd suggest disconnecting (and unplugging from the ac) everything but the amp and speakers, putting shorting plugs on the amp inputs, and plugging the amp directly into the wall, without the power conditioner. If you still hear the same symptoms, try moving the amp around physically. If the symptoms still remain the same, I would say that pretty much rules out everything other than the amp itself, even though the previous amp appeared to do the same thing.

And if that's how it turns out, I'd just leave it alone. As I said earlier, I can't envision any possibility of damage due to such a low level hum.

Hope that helps,
-- Al
Almarg and Ghosthouse,

I may be hunting a similar issue, at least the descriptions sound similar to me.

I have an amp that has developed a hum in one channel only. It is this channel because I have isolated it by disconnecting all outputs and inputs. The hum is there as soon as the amp finishes the tube warm up phase and the outputs come on line. I am now running biamped and this hum is greatly amplified when I turn on the other amp. Sounds like 60Hz is bleeding back somehow.

I added a ground lift plug to the pc on the humming amp and that pretty much eliminates the hum with both amps on. The pre ground is already lifted to play nice with my phono stage. So good, so far.

I also run a pair of plate amps to power my bass horns. When I add the plate amp to mix on the same channel as the amp hum, I get audible 60Hz hum again. Lifting the ground on the plate amp does not solve the issue.

I also measured the open circuit hum at the speaker terminals, and with open circuit at the amp inputs.

Hummer: 1.2 volts left channel (grid voltage is about 10mV higher on this channel also)
.9 volts right channel

good amp: .6 volts right and left

Any ideas on how to further track this down?