Side firing bass designs - Pros & Cons?...


In an earlier "Adiogoner" thread someone asked if anyone had heard speakers from Amphion. I quickly went to their web site to see their speakers and noticed on the Xenon model they incorporated a side firing bass design. Based on the little bit of knowledge I've picked up from more knowledgeable audiophiles it seems to me this set-up would create time and phase coherency issues not to mention sending sound waves away from the listener instead of toward them.

Are there advantages in this type of design I don't know about, because Amphion isn't the only manufacture employing this side firing woofer strategy(Israel Blum uses it)? What are the pros and cons?
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yeah, i agree that you can still tell where 100hz is coming from, but its not as easy to tell. I thought that 100 was where it was supposed to become non-directional
or is it that around 100 hz it starts to take non-directional characteristcs and the lower you go the harder it is to place?

either way, i think the side firing woofer is still a marketing ploy for audiophiles to get bigger spekers to pass the WAF, hence being able to sell larger models.

I mean, check out a set of those Vienna Accoustic Mahlers, those things are slick, they would fit in almost anywhere and are very non imposing for such a massive speaker.

then take a Vandersteen 3A, Big, bulky, darth-vader-esque, and rather difficult when considering the WAF.

It would be alot easier to get the Mahlers in the family room than the vandersteens.

heck, the mahlers almost look like pieces of artwork rather than a speaker
The Vienna Acoustics speakers are VERY placement sensitive from what i remember. Can't remember the model that i tinkered with, but it was a big floorstander with woofers on the side. The bass reminded me of Legacy's, which is to say, loose, flabby and lacking in definition. My Dad really loved them. Then again, he already owns Legacy's. I'm working on that though : ) Sean
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Interesting perspectives here. My perspective is similar, with a couple of exceptions.
I have quantified a type of speaker distortion, which I have listed with my attorney, as a theoretical concept paper, which details a new quantification of distortion unique to dynamic loudspeakers. I have up to this point called it, in its working form ADD, or Air Displacement Distortion.
Let me explain.
In creating sound, all dynamic, and electrostatic, to a much lesser degree, but for the sake of comparison punch the air in the direction of the listener. I first noticed the great differences that the Pipedreams had, in presenting bass, with much less apparent (to me) distortion in the deeper bass than many other speakers which have good bass reproduction and bass extention. Their woofers are vertically loaded for those who are not familiar.
In working on a model, I started to experiment by switching from one speaker to another, comparing this displacement differential, since the Pipedreams subs, again, point vertically, and are not punching air in the exact direction of the listener. All the other speakers, of note, in replicating bass tones of say an upright,double bass, accoustic, seem to have an accompanying 'sound' which is not part of what I hear when I hear that instrument; so I concluded that the throw of the woofers (distance they move from their rest position) in the front firing woofers created an apparent air displacement, sound, unique to, and constant with this presentation, whereas the Pipes did not. That led to other comparisons, all of which took hours on end. I have concluded several things, too lengthy to list here, but they are, in essence, and in capsule this:
Electrostats, sound smoother, (albiet obviously less dynamic) since they don't punch the air, therefore, creating this amusical driver air displacement 'sound'. They move the air more like (I am supposing) their real accoustic counterparts, i.e. instruments. Even a concert bass drum is displacing air to the sides, when struck. So rarely is the air 'assulted with such force, than in the bass, and with large front firing woofers.
When we discuss phase coherence, and such, we have to consider that the drum is naturally coherent, even though the sound is loaded to the sides in the room, relative to the listener, assuming that he or she is in front. I am going to do more work on this, but some input would be welcome.
I am sure that driver noise, another, similar issue is also part and parcel of the difference that people report hearing in stats, versus dynamic speakers.
Remember, this, as most audio work is not completed, therefore not emperical, but at this stage suppositional again, at this stage of its development. I think back on the Maggies, with limited displacement (relatively), and similar to stats, and horns,(perhaps) and how different, and more lifelike they can sound...sometimes. The Sound Lab Electrostatic has 22 square feet or air pulsing in phase at all frequencies, for example, but moving air a slight amount, but in great volume (not as it relates to loudness, but amount of here). And regardless of individual tastes, most people love their sound, generally reporting it to be less distorted. This is consistant with the Air Displacement Distortion Theory. The SL's sound more polite, and maybe, less accurate, in some ways, dynamically. Thoughts and ideas are interesting here because of the obvious link to my theoretical work.
Also, one final thought, I owned the Mahlers by Vienna Acoustics, and liked their bass, not for the reasons that some do, but because they did not assault the ear the way some front firing woofs do, again, perhaps supporting this theory. I have many more hours to work on this, to finish a white paper theory, but it is interesting to me to contemplate. On the whole, at this time, I think, and am close to concluding something which may be obvious but rarely spoken of, "Driver Noise", which is part of ADD.
Thoughts? Further Ideas? Grant money?
Larry
But we should not forget the bottom line, it's our ears that do the listening regardless where we listen. In a recording studio, regardless which direction a drum is pushing air, we listen to the whole band at ONE location where you sit or stand. Recording does the same by placing microphone at some strategic locations to mimic what a listen should hear if we were there.

So speakers with side firing woofer, because of room interaction, will less likely to sound as integrated as other designs.
Lrsky, that's an interesting concept. The way I interpret it, the very act of moving a lot of air in a small space creates distortion -- call it atmospheric friction, but add eddy currents and whirls. By moving air more uniformly over a larger surface area, that distortion goes down and sounds more realistic. It sounds extremely plausible. Well done! (this is but one of many factors in the equation, and introduces more tradeoffs, but it is one more variable for consideration)