Eidolon vs Opus

Ha, Ha, Ha -- well said, Bryans! And in the meantime we've lost any additional replies to Rmaurin's original question about what to expect if he upgrades from Opus to Eidolon.

I have not heard the Kharmas yet, I have plans to do it very soon. I do have a fair amount of experience with Avalons(they were my last speakers), I always felt myself wanting something I just couldn't obtain with them, not to say they were bad I just felt they were on the lean side and pretty far from the last word in coherency. I am currently using a MUCH cheaper speaker and everyone who has heard before and after agrees the current set up is better on every plane. The things I felt missing from the the avalons is exactly what I am told the kharma's do so very well. The model I believe they are reffering to is either the Midi Grand(30k msrp) or the infamous 3.2 monitor(19k msrp) so they are on par with the mid-twenties from the Avalon Eidolon. I do think you could do better for the money the Eidolon's cost, I at one time lusted after Eidolon's more then anything and now they are not even on my list any more :( They do look incredible though! You owe it to yourself to do a little auditioning at this price level.

I think this is a fair statement. Feel free to disagree if you are inclined. Though many people like Eidolons with tubes, I think they excel with coherent and fast solid state, where the Eidolon transparency, staging, and resolution really shine. They are holographic in the sense that electrostatics are, and in that sense they are thinner than a traditional tube presentation is, though in every sense musical. I simply disagree about coherency, having heard Eidolons with Spectral's best amps and latest DMC-30sl preamp and with excellent room acoustics and vibration control. The stage is tightly coherent, wide and deep. Eidolons mirror the signal fed to them.
On the other hand, if you prefer a warmer, fuller tubelike presentation, then Kharmas appear to be well-matched to electronics of that type. My impression of the $70k Exquisites with Lamm is that they portray, say, a guitar in the same room with you in a more vibrant, organic way than Eidolons, while Eidolons will excel in portraying realistic soundstages with fine low level detail.
I haven't heard the midi-Grand or Ceramiques, but there is probably a family resemblance.
Basically, I'm suggesting there is a style difference in the two speaker lines which would probably be revealed by a/b'ing with similar electronics.

Please do not misinterpret my observations as those of an expert. I am not; however, I have owned (and loved) the Avalon Eclipse. On several occasions I have listened to the Avalon Eidolon with both top-of-the-line Spectral and a Spectral digital/Arc Ref1/Arc VT200 setup in a room with over $20,000 in room treatment. And I now own a pair of Kharma Ceramique 1.0's.

Some will call me a heretic, but I actually preferred the sound of my Avalon Eclipse to that of the Avalon Eidolon. The Eidolon's in the room I heard them had a huge holographic stage and were very nimble, particularly with the Spectral gear. However, to me they sounded somewhat thin or light in balance. The ARC gear helped add some body, but ultimately for just musicality and coherence I preferred the Avalon Eclipse (2 way sealed box) with big tube amps.

I recently purchased a pair of Kharma Ceramique 1.0's without auditioning them, partly due to my desire to venture up to a new audio summit and partly due to A-goner's advice (such as Jtinn) who own the Kharma's.

As I wait for my Atma-Sphere MA1 MkII.2's to arrive, I am still amazed at what the Kharma's do. Mind you that I am temporarily using a 60w/ch Marantz integrated amp ($1200 retail), but the density of tone, the size (particularly height and depth) of stage, and even transparency is simply amazing. It is not as refined and detailed as the Eidolons I heard, but let's just say $20 grand in room treatment and tens of thousands of $ in components has just a little to do with that. I cannot wait to hear what they are able to do with my cd player plugged directly into the Atma-sphere amps.

Hope this helps a little on the Kharma/Eidolon differences. As for the Eidolon/Opus debate, I cannot offer any real help as I have not heard the Opus's. I was a little skeptical of the downfiring woofer, but after owning the Eclipses, I have enormous respect for Neil Patel and his designs. Clearly, he and Charles Oosterum (Kharma) bring a certain genius to the design of speakers and particularly crossovers. IMHO, they are more alike than not, which is to say that they are on the summit of my speaker designer mountain. Anyway, FWLIW!