Electrostats Shootout at 4000 Corral

Tweekerman
Hey,I own Soundlab Ultimate II's and live near New Orleans.You gotta go see Duke at Audiokinesis,he's the man.504.866.1730.He's extremely knowledgeable about audio and Soundlab's.Also,he's a audio club president/vice president or something of that nature,locally.Ask him about the club.I would seek him out for anything in audio if he carries it.No pressure has ever been placed on me to purchase anything for him.Go see him you'll have a blast!
BTW,my Soundlabs have found permanence in my home.Never have I had such glorious music before these were purchased. Remember mating Soundlabs with the "right" amp,preamp and cables pays big dividends.I have had my Ultimate II's for four years and "finally" I'm close to saying it can't get much better than this.I listen now without being critical.I have "arrived". I used to hear people talk about "musicians in the room" with their systems.They also show up in my listening room now.As you can see when you mention Soundlab,I get excited.!Also,consult Albert Porter about Soundlabs.You will probably see him appear in this thread eventually.I don't give out email addresses you must talk to him.

Chuckie

Tweekerman, to answer your question, I would take the Eros Mk-II over the CLS IIz and the REL Storm combo (to me that's not even a close call). As transparent as the CLS IIz may be, the Eros is equally adept. And I have never heard the CLS throw the kind of huge, open soundfield that the Eros can easily manage. Nor can it match The Eros' dynamic capability or maximum output level. Plus if you get the Eros II, you may find that you don't even need a subwoofer. And you can always add a great subwoofer down the road if you think you are missing much. Actually, Roger Sanders does not recommend a subwoofer for use with the Eros unless it is a very high quality sub crossed very low. With the CLS you will almost certainly need the woofer right off the bat.

BTW, for those who are curious, Roger Sanders is not resting on his laurels. He is working on an even larger electrostatic system, the Ethos, although that system may not be a reality in the near term. He has also told me of some tube amplifiers he is developing, including a direct-drive OTL model to drive his ESL panels, which may be introduced sometime later this year.

InnerSound appears to be a proactive company, that is not about to become complacent in the light of the good press it has received thus far. I think this kind of progressive approach is key to continuing success in the long term.

Soundlab for sure if its got to be electrostat, the Maggies can sound really nice as well but differ from the electrostatic sound to an extent. You will hear the associated equipments flaws in any revealing, neutral speaker like Maggies or good electrostats. The 1.6qr can sound excellent with the proper gear behind them, I'd be scared to hear 1.6's with substandard associated equipment. Most dynamic planars and electrostats expose the good and the bad in the chain, so be prepared for not so impressive sound with the wrong associated equipment, wrong room and wrong placement with panels.
I think there is great value for the money with used elecrostats like Soundlab as most owners take excellent care of them, they are usually kept safe from danger in a friendly environment and are seldom moved. For bass you need big electrostats to produce low frequencies; most agree that Soundlab has done its homework to ensure that this has been accomplished. The hybrids I have heard never seem to integrate as well as full-range electrostats, theres no way I would throw a sub in the system with the Soundlabs. Well maybe 2 more SL's used as bass panels :)

Good luck,
Chris

Hi Plato, Unfortunately I haven´t heard the Innersounds so I can´t comment on the Eros. I´m sure they´re sounding great but I´m not so sure they would pass the WAF test and so far I´m very happy with my musical Magnepans.
Which full range ´stats in the SL line have you heard? I don´t think I have the space to house them but I´m curious to know how they compare to other panels.

Tweekerman, I have heard all the speakers you mention and I must agree with Plato -- the EROS, IMHO are in another league (for MY taste and MY preferences in MY room). I am not here to brag about my system , tell you what IS or IS not the "best" of anything or to say that anyone choosing the MLs or Dyna's is wrong.

Being single with no children, (and due to the prices I get on gear) has allowed me to put together a fairly high level of electronics. Right now I have all Lamm electronics (M1.1 amps, L2 Reference Line stage and LP2 phono stage), Sonic Frontiers T3/P3 (transport and DAC), VPI TNT-V with JMW 12.5 arm & Van den Hul Colibri with Valhalla and Silversmith cabling (along with a plethora of isolation devices, PCs and an Audio Magic Stealth and PP300). I mention this because many people think that I should have a set of $15,000-$30,000 speakers to match the electronics -- but I ended up with the EROS. I sold a $10,000 pair of highly respected full range dynamic speakers (Hales T-8s) after hearing what these EROS did in my system.

The EROS have as big of a soundstage as my T-8s but have much better midrange, better focus, tremendous speed and, surprisingly enough, excellent bass from the transmission line woofer (which I believe is the most seamless integration of a hybrid design I have ever heard). Now to be fair, I did add two REL Stentor III sub-bass systems to the EROS. I did NOT do this because I thought the EROS didn't have sufficient bass, but did so after a very impressive demo by Allan Haggar of Sumiko (REL importer)of a what the REL Stentor III did for FULL range speakers. Mine are crossed over way down at 23hz.

The EROS has much more of a "reach out and touch the performer" feel than any other speaker I have had. I also have heard some of the Soundlabs recently and they are wonderful at many things. In Novemeber, I heard a set of Soundlab M-1s with VERY good electronics and cables and, with female vocals and acoustic music, they were simply breathtaking! But, these are not only $13,000 speakers, but on the punchy, hard driving, 70's soul and jazz/funk I love to listen too (e.g., Tower of Power), they sounded, to my ears, horrible. They could not play at louder spl levels and the band had NO punch - the bass was overbloated and the horn section sounded like they were 500 feet away and weak. I have NO such problem with the EROS at all -- they can play the acoustic music with finese and detail and yet get up and boogie with the punchy stuff. Finally, the clarity and lack of congestion and smearing with the EROS is amazing.

Last Friday, Allan Haggar of Sumiko came to my home to help me set-up my second REL. He has heard many systems and commented on how he had never liked MLs but could not believe how dynamic and yet non-fatiguing the EROS were. But what really struck him (he is a classically trained musician) was how the large scale classical and his favorite HUGE scale organ CDs had no congealing, smearing or compression. He said he heard details he's never heard before from his reference discs -- (to be fair, since I know my system, the Valhallas also contributed to this).

Downside of the EROS? Well, first of all, VERY small sweet spot. The panels being flat and not curved like the MLs, give up the wider disperion that MLs have but, IMHO, make up for this smaller sweet spot with much better sonics. If you want to listen while walking around the room or with three other people - fahget abodit, unless they are in your lap! :-) Second, they need power, notwithstanding their rating (although not as much as say a Soundlab M or A series).

I also agree with Plato on the MK-I vs. the MK-II (I should point out that I have the MK-II panels and both the MK-I and MK-II bass amp/x-over units). I, personally, like the MK-I amp a litle better but it's a close call and subject to further auditioning (Roger Sanders will disagree I'm sure). All in all, my opinion is that the EROS should NOT compared to the Dynas or Ascents, neither of which in my system are in even the EROS league. I believe the better comarison for the $6,000 EROS is with the much more expensive SLs or MLs.

Finally, they don't come any better than Roger Sanders at Innersound - class act, ALWAYS willing to help even if it doesn't produce profit to him and always accesible.