severe limiting factor

Thanks for the responses so far.

I should first say that what I mean by no SS or imaging is that I hear the music coming from the speakers.. not in front of them, behind them, or to their sides. it appears to come right from the wood boxes that are sitting on the floor.

The room is 10' x 17' and I sit about 12' from the 10' wall and about 9' from the speakers. right now the speakers are almost perfectly centered along the 10' wall. they are 6' appart (center to center). The left one is about 2.5' from the side wall, and the right one is about 1.5' from the side wall. Thiel recommends more distance between the speakers and the side walls, but if that's impossible, they want you to toe them in. They are toed in now so that when i'm sitting in my position i can only see the front side of them. they're looking at me straight on. i did this because along the 17' wall between the speakers and my listening position there is a desk on one side and a hutch on the other side. if they were aimed more straight ahead they would be aimed at these objects. also, there is 2.5' from the rear wall to the back side of the speakers.

before today, the speakers were slightly closer together. In their current position (as described above) i think i might have lost some of the "music coming from the boxes" effect, but the change was very slight.

I have a feeling that this room is probably too small, but i didn't build the system for this room. for now, though, i would like to get the most out of it.

thanks again!
kevin

Kevin, it sounds as if they might be out of phase...judging by your description emulating from the "wooden boxes. Double check your connections..I am not being funny at all, I did the very same thing last week..lol

I agree with Tunes4me that your speakers could well be wired out of phase. A good check for this is to play a mono source, like a voice. If you are properly set up you should have a very sharp center image. Additionally, assuming that solves your first problem, don't be afraid to move your speakers closer to the sidewalls and cross the axis of the speaker well in front of you. You can get a much wider soundstage this way and you won't have an overbright upper midrange/high end from listening on axis. The severe toe in will help avoid the early reflection problem from the side wall. The only downside is you might elevate your bass.

I have the Thiel CS2.4s and can't imagine a problem with imaging. I have mine nearly 9 feet, center to center and sit about 11 feet from them. I am using a total POS Sony DVD player ($160.00 at Good Guys) and I have a great soundstage and imaging with my Rotel integrated doing the DAC work. I think your inital problem is indeed speaker placement. Try moving them further apart temporarily and with a slight toe in, maybe 5-10 degrees. I actually moved mine so far apart at one point that the center image started to disappear but a few inches closer and they snapped back into line. Also, how far from the rear walls do you have them?

Good luck, I love my Theils as do many folks on agon from what I have read.

Sometimes when short-wall placement fails to achieve good results, positioning the speakers along the long wall may work better... I don't know if that would be possible in your room, but if it is, it could be worth a try. You'd be listening fairly near-field, of course, and you may have to play with the positioning and bass EQ, but it may well give better results.

The flat soundstaging could also be caused by a component or cabling mismatch, which is just as likely as anything else. I have heard certain Classe amps sound very two-dimensional in certain situations. Aren't they internally wired with some sort of silver wire? If so, you might want to try cabling products with some silver content...