Change needed at Audiogon


Dear members,

I don't know how others feel about stupid inquiries from non-members about items for sale but I will no longer even bother to answer them. I take great care to word the ads as accurately as possible and include enough photos to properly show the listed item. I also try to be realistic with pricing.

I certainly don't mind being asked to soften my price or to do something a little special for an interested party. But when I list the item as being sold only in the U.S., including original box and manual, and the price is firm with the buyer paying for shipping and then an UNKNOWN person with a Hotmail account asks if I will ship to Canada, lower my price and inquires if the equipment includes the original box and manual I get angry. Can't these people read??

As a verified member I would like to see the owners of this website make two changes. We sellers should ONLY receive emails from registered users that have a REAL email address. I don't mind a buyer's real identity being hidden from me during the initial correspondence but feel strongly that Audiogon should know who they are. I would also like to see Audiogon institute a verified "buyer" service for a reduced fee. I know, as a seller, if a buyer were verified I would take even the lame inquiries more seriously. A verified buyer fee could be quite low and upgradeable to full verified status for the monetary difference.

The benefits would help everyone have a little more confidence with each other. It would provide an influx of revenue to Audiogon. It would save all the sellers the grief of crank inquiries.

I want to close this rant with expressing how much I value my association with the fine folks that provide this service and the community involved. All of my sales and purchases through this site have left me feeling that I have made friends. It's just a few anonymous jerks that need to be filtered out.

Feel better now,
Patrick
lugnut
I'll also take all the inquiries that I can get; you really never know. But I completely agree that members make better traders than nonmembers - likely from experience.
The funniest one I ever got was a nonmember who wanted to base his offering price not upon fair-market, but upon what *I* paid for the cables I was selling. I said what I had to say to close the deal, but he was getting them at about 25% of retail which was actually somewhat below fair market, so I didn't lose any sleep over that one. Of course I lost $ on the deal; I sold at about 50% of my purchase cost. At least they're finally outta here & they found a reasonably good home.
Interesting reading. A few things come to mind... I recently sold a CDP to a non-member. He was referred to my ad by a member, and he then contacted me. We traded emails and spoke on the phone several times. Terrific guy to do biz with and all went very smoothly; I did suggest the gent sign up here and buy/sell here regularly. Sell to a non-member? Why not.

I tend to be suspicious of Hotmail and Yahoo email addresses but as Sean points out, many folks use this as their only way to send/receive email. Approach with caution in the event someone is trying to hide their identity to pull a scam.

Verified memebership...well, if you live in the United States of America then you can be verified. This policy has irked me for a long time and caused me grief when I quoted Elvis Costello in an initial thread on the subject. Should you choose to live in any other country you have no chance becoming an AudioGon verified member. I've made the grave error of remaining a Canadian citizen and living in Canada so I cannot be verified. I suppose it doesn't matter to Lugnut cuz he wouldn't sell to me anyway but I'm sure other members think twice and wonder why I'm not verified? My take on things...when I'm selling something I don't care where in the world a buyer lives so long as he pays me in U.S. funds and is willing to pick up the shipping. Same with buying stuff, if it's an item I want and I consider the cost of shipping reasonable I don't much care where the seller lives. Removing the blinders provides for many more opportunities. Sincerely, Unverified Jeff
Personally, I don't understand why you would get offended or upset at someone sending you a simple email, pressenting some other options or asking some questions that you may or may not have considered originally!..it's all communication and negotiation really. I can't tell you how many hundreds, yes hundres of times I've told someone I was selling something to(or buying from), that I would only take/pay this much for an item, or only fullfill specific guidelines or options, only to later change my mind due to circumstances changing, or me/them changing our minds!!! ...that's life, and it's all negotiable!
If people are so EASILY offended at simple inquiries, may I suggest there are some deep personal issues that need to be adressed!...and they really shouldn't be dealing with people, or selling in the first place!...or they simply dislike people...one or all of the above.
can't we just all lighten up a little?
Hey if one simply doesn't like someone's email, they can simply delete it!...no emotional outrage necessary.
Oh, BTW, I have a hot mail account I use here. And I've sold hundreds of audio items over the net in the last 7 years!..and have only possitive feedbacks on any and all the forums I deal on...
This thread will soon drop off the "New Today" page. I would like to thank everyone for their thoughtful replies. I believe that a few of the readers didn't quite "get" my first sentence regarding NON-MEMBERS & HOTMAIL. That is my complaint. The verified status I spoke of was simply an attempt to raise the comfort level of everyone involved.

That being said, it comes as a surprise the ability to become verified is a U.S.-only opportunity. The only reason I would not sell to Jeffloistarca is that I don't have a clue about the trappings of taxes, duties, extra shipping fees and the like. Other threads posted here detailing packages held for customs inspection only make me more nervous of international business. If Audiogon wishes to become an international site a method of verification world-wide will need to be implimented. With only a few pieces of personal gear to sell I have decided that the possible grief is not worth the risk of selling international.

I got slammed (in a polite way) by several Hotmail users who are members. Once again, it is the NON-MEMBERS that I was complaining about.

It was just last fall when I made my first purchase here at Audiogon. Prior to contacting the owner of the items I purchased I first registered and in my email I explained that this was my first attempt here at Audiogon to purchase goods and assured the seller of my genuine interest in the products. Perhaps it's just me and my sense of being polite but I figured that this fellow didn't solicite directly to me and since I was, in a sense, invading his email inbox that I ought to take care with my correspondence.

This world is made up of folks that over-communicate, under-communicate and everthing in between. Personally, I tend to favor the over-communicate method. I recently got an email from a life long friend with this being the email text in it's entirety:
Pat,
I bought a Jag today.
Bill
Well, being a car guy I assumed it was a Jaguar and wrote back asking what model and year it was. He replies that it's a Cataraft. How was I to know? I'm not a mind reader.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that (leaving the malicious people out) without the privelidge of face to face negotiations we, as buyers, have a moral obligation to provide a minimum ammount of information to the seller. I sense that some of the posters here wouldn't agree with me on that one and would counter that it's the sellers lot in life to deal with it. That's true. Once it's (an email) in your inbox you must deal with it in some fashion. I don't believe it's unreasonable for users of this site to register. That's Audiogon's call, not mine. It's my choice to use this site or not and I will continue to do so because it's the finest site of its' kind on the planet.

Thanks again to EVERYONE that posted. This is a wonderful group of people with opinions as varied as our systems. It's interesting to note that every poster here IS a member...........

Happy listening,
Patrick
I too have been frustrated by non-member inquiries, but I also have sold some things to non-members. I have had members ask questions that are already answered in the ad, so I don't think closing the site to non-members is a solution, unless you want to limit your customer base. I know it's frustrating, but that's all part of selling. I'm also sure that, on occasion, I've asked a dumb question or two myself, or missed something already stated in an ad. I do like the "verified buyer" idea, but be cautious of a labeling process that is accomplished by the use of a credit card and the submission of the personal information of the card holder. The amount of stolen credit card numbers out there is overwhelming. Imagine, if you would, an e-tailer's files being hacked, and all of the personal and credit card information for card holders stored in their computers now accessible to criminals. The card holder doesn't know his card is being used because it's still in his or her wallet. If the purchases are small (such as ad purchases), the card holder may not notice these charges for some time. This isn't a fantasy. It's already happened to several internet businesses that I know of.

The use of feedback has always been my guide to a seller's or buyer's integrity. But now there has been a number of stolen identity cases where a username with excellent feedback is high-jacked and used to post a fraudulent auction. There is an article about it on Cnet, if you're curious. Education is the best protection for judging buyer and seller integrity. There is a wealth of information at www.theauctionguild.com, www.fraud.org, www.nw3c.org, and www.ifccfbi.gov. Read and be familiar with all of the warning signs for internet fraud, and the tactics used by criminals to accomplish it.

Lately I've seen a couple of threads bashing Audiogon for one thing or another. I don't mean to imply that this was the purpose of this thread. Quite the contrary, this seems like constructive criticism (and ranting:)). But I would just like to say this about Audiogon: Having recently been involved in investigating internet auction fraud, I have found that Audiogon is a site where your safety from these characters is a primary concern of theirs. They are very supportive and communicative. I haven't had the same response from other audio or auction sites. There was a time not long ago when the entire first two pages of one audio site was nothing but bogus ads. It took weeks for them to pull these ads after being notified. In the meantime, someone was victimized. It seeems like some of these sites won't pull ads or remove members until an actual fraud has occured, regardless of the evidence of the ad being fraudulent beforehand. Audiogon is the ONLY site I have worked with that is proactive with this type of fraud. As far as settling non-fraud related problems, they also initiated a dispute resolution process soliciting member feedback that no other site has. Even though everything can be improved upon, I think Audiogon is the best sales site for audio equipment, and is the only one I will now use.

Sorry if I got off the track a bit. I had to rant some as well. By the way, I have a Hotmail email address. Where do I turn myself in:)?