Is vinyl dead ?

07-14-03: Twl - Amazing how it is still kicking the butt of the CD after 20 years, isn't it?

In what respect? Where do you get your numbers/information from?

I agree with Egrady. I agree with him that the majority of consumers out there think that CD sounds good enough and, in fact, superior to what vinyl sounded like on their mass market turntables (hiss, pops, and all of the bad TT specs).

Add to this the added convenience of being able to take their music anywhere in this form; no "tweaking" hassles of TT's; etc., and you find that in fact the CD may even be short-lived. Again, the large majority of consumers want good enough quality in favor of convenience. I believe that MP3's (or some similar digital file format) will send the CD/SACD/etc. to a similar end result as vinyl is currently seeing today (small/niche market). You don't have to worry about "skipping" problems with solid-state players. Even the best portable CD players today cannot resolve this problem completely (100%). And, you get even more storage capability to play even more songs. All at even less quality (more loss of information due to compression, file sizes, etc.) than CD - much less SACD!

Although, I believe that vinyl will continue to live a fairly long and continued life...but as a "niche" or seemingly underground (not meant in a negative context ;) market like it lives in today. I also believe that the CD will soon (relatively speaking) follow in its footsteps. :)

Twl - Vinyl may be kicking CDs' butt for quality (to a relatively small group of consumers, like those here on AudiogoN), but to the majority of consumers...CD has been kicking vinyl's butt where it counts (numbers sold/$$). Sure, there is a small group of consumers like those here on AudiogoN that will continue the "niche" audiophile market and who love the "best" quality that can be obtained by one's current budget, including vinyl. But, for the masses - convenience is "king". That's the way it's always been, and always will be. :)

Wes

Wes, I wholly agree that your "good enough for the mass market" theory will likely dictate sales levels. And, to some, the $$ "is where it counts" is also valid. I would, instead, be in the camp of quality over quantity. You may be very well correct that this is will always be a niche market. However, as long as there is some money to be made and there is still enough good vinyl to "go around", I don't think vinyl will DIE.

Plus, every time I go to my used records shops there is more and more competition, many being folks much younger than me, the majority of which seem to be female (at least where I live).

I almost always make it a point to ask them about their interest in vinyl (nice to have such a convenient topic for conversation, BTW), why they buy it, and what they play it on. Invariably, they say, "my mother/father plays/used to play LP's", "it just sounds better than CD", "I like the music and the covers", and "I am using their old table." They always ask, "I like XX's records. What else do you think I'd like".

I have inquired further of a few whom I subsequently got to know well enough to invite over for a listen to my system. While the quality of my front end does not approach many on this site, they were totally shocked and thrilled. Of course, for most, their point of comparison is the MP3 or equally inferior cheap CD deck at home or in the car.

No, the convenience of the CD (or future media) will never be replaced by vinyl in many applications in this portable world. But, I do think that if enough younger adults have a chance to hear vinyl reproduced as it should be, there may be a solid future for vinyl in home-based systems.

BTW, if a media of any kind can perform to my ears the same or better as a good vinyl rig AND be as convenient as CD, I'd buy it. Just haven't heard it as yet.

Wlusk, I really don't need to add anything to your statements. You've really said it all. For those interested in the mass market and convenience, there's the CD. For that small niche interested in the best sound quality, like audiophiles, there's the LP. I'll even make a concession that CD can be quite enjoyable in certain circumstances in an audiophile environment. For people who want both, there is both. Speaking for myself, I'm not interested in what satisfies convenience primarily. Except when convenience may be a requirement, like jogging or driving. For my home environment I use LPs, and in the car I use CDs.

07-14-03: 4yanx - I don't think vinyl will DIE.

Glad to see that you agree with me, 4yanx! :)

Twl, thank you for your kind words...and I agree with you as well. ;)

07-14-03: Twl - ...and in the car I use CDs.

And, soon you'll be using MP3's (or some other digital file format) - as many are already doing with the influx of MP3 capable units increasing on the market (for both home and car use). ;)

Wes

First of all, the comsumer was never given the oppurtunity to choose between vinyl and CD. As soon as this musical tradgedy was foisted on the listening public, vinyl was pulled from the bins and destroyed.

I went into the local purveyor of sound one week and there were literally millions of LPs there. Two weeks later I went back and they were in the process of repacking all their LPs and replacing them with those awful silver discs. CDs at that time sounded absolutely awful, now they are just not as good as LPs.

JVC, who had just invested millions on new presses and lathes dismantled them and refused to sell them to prospective buyers. Why would they not want to at least make back some of their investment by selling what they were not using? I don't like the X-Files, but something is a little fishy here!

Anyone who wanted to buy vinyl had to hunt like a madman to find anything. SO there never was any competition between the two formats.

Even today none of the big companies track LP sales. For those who bother to do it, they find that last year LP sales were up while CD sales have fallen of dramatically.

Even if that was not true, how many of us would be willing to accept the vote of the uninformed consumer as to what is the better medium?!?

I have a $3500 SACD player and a $3500 turntable/arm/cartridge combo. I'd say that's pretty even! The TT still sounds better, not different, but better!!! Vinyl might not sell as much as CD, but CDs sound dead.