Good, Neutral, Reasonably Priced Cables?


After wading through mountains of claims, technical jargon etc. I'm hoping to hear from some folks who have had experience with good, neutral, reasonably priced cables. I have to recable my entire system after switching from Naim and want to get it right without going nuts! Here is what I'm looking for and the gear that I have:

Looking for something reasonably priced-i.e. used IC's around $100-150. Used speaker cable around $300-400 for 10ft pair.

Not looking for tone controls. I don't want to try to balance colorations in my system. I'd like cables that add/substract as little from the signal as possible.

Looking for something easily obtainable on the used market i.e. that I can find the whole set up I need without waiting for months and months. I guess this would limit you to some of the more popular brands. Without trying to lead you, here are some I've been considering:

Kimber Hero/Silver Streak
Analysis Plus Copper Oval/Oval 9
Cardas Twinlink/Neutral Reference (Pricey)
Wireworld Polaris/Equinox

Here is my gear:

VPI Scout/JMW9/ATML170
Audio Research SP16
Audio Research 100.2
Rotel RCD 971
Harbeth Compact 7

I would really appreciate your help on this. Thanks, as always.
dodgealum
That's actually the purpose in getting research out of the hands of any company, Psychic.

Academic research is aimed at truth, not at what is going to sell a lot of radios or fit the consumer's desire for convenient and invisible.
I have news for you, Flex! Academic research is focused at war technology and making money, not truth. I graduated from one of those *famous* universities that have vines growing on their building walls outside and have self appointed themselves as a "league". The National Semiconductor Facility is there--cofunded by the governement and private industry. The list goes on and on...it's just a big facade.
I agree with getting affordable good sounding cables too. I'm not rich, and like good sounding gear.

I think that alot of the sentiment spoken here is based on the desire to have the advantages of megabuck equipment at mass market prices. I'm all for it.

In other markets, there has been some "standardization" protocols used for connection technologies. Maybe that is what some of us would like to see here. Like all speaker loads could be required to exhibit the same impedance, current draw, phase shift, and other characteristics, before they could be approved for "standardization". Also, all amp output stages would have to have similar characteristics that are optimized for driving the "standardized" speaker loads. Cables could then be "standardized" to provide the proper criteria for connecting these "standardized" amps and speakers.

Unfortunately, this kind of standardization generally results in mediocrity of performance, but nice interconnectivity and price. When performance innovations are considered, they may not fit into the standardization pattern, and performance seeking audiophiles could then purchase non-standard audio equipment at their own risk(and pleasure).

This way, the mass market, and lower end audiphile market could have great interconnectivity and flexibility, with decent performance guaranteed by the "standards committee". Any piece of gear with the "seal of approval" could be counted-on to work well with other gear exhibiting the "seal of approval". Other gear "outside the box" and not exhibiting the "seal of approval" could be purchased by more seasoned audiophiles who wish to go beyond the norm, and experiment with high-performance products at their own financial risk.

With both types of products available to consumers, nobody is "boxed in" to any one form or the other. They are free to buy the "standardized gear" and be assured of a good level of performance. Or they could spend alot more and get what they want to have without any restrictions by the standardizations.

Perhaps this is what is needed.

But, without standardization, there are too many variables to make very realistic predictions exactly how any given product will perform with other products. We are expected to know that my little 2 watt SET amp will not work with a pair of Apogee Scintillas. But when it gets more subtle, it becomes more difficult. Maybe this is even some of the fun in assembling an audio system. And the variety is part of the game.

We all want a Ferrari for the price of a used Yugo, but that ain't gonna happen. If we boil all this down to the essence, it is that we want a particular cable because it sounds like we want it to, but we don't want to pay the guy that makes it what he wants to charge us. Unfortunately, that's life. If all we wanted was just some cable, we'd go down to Home Depot and buy the 14ga extension cords and cut them up and use them. But we really don't want that, do we? Not really. What we want is the ultimate megabuck cable for $12.95. It's just not realistic. In all markets, the better stuff costs more, and the really hot stuff costs alot. If you really want it, you'll have to pay for it. And if you can't pay for it, then you'll have to settle for what you can. Or, if you actually think that there isn't any real technology in these cables, you can try to make some yourself. If you get a good sounding cable put together, you can start up your own company and find out how much it really costs to do this on a corporate scale, with labor costs, inventory costs, taxes, plants, warehouses, insurance, marketing, advertising, dealer margins, etc, and why they cost what they do when you can only sell a couple hundred pairs a year(if you're lucky).

Just some thoughts.
I just want it all to make me happy, as well as the few friends I have who stop by to listen with me. Lightening Rods under musical instruments make it all stand up.Tom
Psychic & Audiofankj: The reason that i didn't "jump" on the offer to check these out is that i currently have four out of five systems down and torn apart. The only one that is running is my HT system, which is XLR based. On top of that, i've got all five speakers pulled apart for crossover upgrades and am using other speakers temporarily. As such, i can substitute these cables into this system, but it wouldn't really be an apples to apples comparison between an RCA based cable and balanced cables. On top of that, the speakers that i'm using aren't exacly a good match for this system, but it at least gives me tunes and movies for now.

Yes, i can "cobble" at least one of the other RCA based systems together, but it will be nothing that i'm used to and won't be nearly as "dialed in" as i'd like. Yes, i can get a "feel" for what these cables do, but it wouldn't be a fair trial of their potential.

For sake of clarity in case you're wondering how i could have so many systems down, i damaged one of the speakers in my office system, possibly to the point of no repair.

I sold / traded my amp in my tube system a while back. No other tube amps on the premises. Want to build my own tube amp for this system, but it will have to wait until i can get some of my other projects caught up.

I have the speakers in my bedroom system pulled apart for crossover upgrades. As with the speakers in my HT system, i'm letting all of the caps "form" and then selecting them one by one i.e. the cream of the crop once they are fully settled in. This involves charging the caps up to or near rated voltage, letting them discharge naturally and then cycling them up to voltage again, several times over. From there, i can check to see which are discharging faster than others ( due to higher dielectric losses )and compare their measured values in terms of matched values. Yes, i buy TONS of extra caps for any project, which allows me to pick and choose as needed.

My main system is down due to problems with my midrange panels. I'm thinking of scrapping them, but don't know if i want to attempt rebuilding them or if i'm going to try and replace them with something else i.e. a commercial offering.

Yes, i'm doing more work on the gear than listening lately. Given that i've also got a PA system that i'm building for a local band in my free time, my own personal projects are coming about even slower than normal and i'm not exactly "fast" to begin with.

Flex: Great post. Thank you for presenting another well thought out and reasonable summary of the situation.

Psychic: I agree to a certain extent. That is, much of the technology that we have today was derived through scientific research conducted for military purposes. If it didn't come from the military, it came from deciphering alien technology : )

Twl: standardizing input and output impedances on components wouldn't be hard to do and / or drastically compromize the sound quality of any given design. This would be a HUGE step forward and get rid of many of the variables that account for the difference in sonics with interconnects that many encounter.

As far as standardizing speakers, that would be a good one. No real way to do that as far as i can see. While you could have standardized impedances, etc... i think that the designers would be more worried about meeting the certification specs in terms of input impedances and levels of reactance rather than achieving the best performance possible. As you mentioned, speakers like this might be good for those that want a "plug & play" system, but would probably not be best suited for those seeking optimum performance. Sean
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