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EMM Labs Vs Killer DAC

Hi Guys

I was over at a friends place today hearing the Killer DAC compared to an EMM Labs DAC on his Thiel 3 ways which were fed by an AR Ref 5 pre and some SS monoblocks I cant recall the name of, but they are evidently similar to the Arion 500's which was thought to be just a bit bass shy in comparison.

Anyway here is his view which will be followed by mine.

Have to say there's a lot to like about the Killer, except maybe the name which seems to rub people off the wrong way.

I was able to use Bill's Offramp to feed I2S to the Killer and AES to the EMM Labs XDS1 simultaneously and was able to A:B easily between the two using the ARC preamp.

The EMM does a lot of things right for me. But the Killer sounds more natural in the end. The XDS1 seems to exaggerate differences - higher highs and lower lows but the end result (which on its own doesn't sound bad to me) is less listenable to me than the Killer in the AB. I loved how the Killer reproduced guitars in Fourplay's 101 Eastbound (HD Tracks) which made it "easy" to follow. Where the XDS1 reproduced the music, the Killer sounded like it was an organised quartet led by the lead guitar, with the rest of band accompanying him. I really enjoyed that quality.

When we listened to the Phasure a while back, there was a similar disconnect - the Phasure reproduced voices like Pat Barber with a raspy or gravelly quality - was it more detail? I thought I heard that with Joni Mitchell's Both Sides Now (DVDA rip) on the XDS1 today. The Killer was smoother but more natural. I've only heard Pat Barber once, in a club in Chicago many years ago and from memory, it seems to be somewhere in between. It wasn't quite buttery smooth, but it wasn't quite as gravelly as what I heard on the Phasure either. If I had to choose, I'd err on the side of the Killer.

When I first heard about the Killer, about how well it sounded with vocals, I can't say I was particularly keen to listen to it. I had written it off along with many warm syrupy slow Chinese tube amps I had heard int he past. But it wasn't the case. I even threw in a bit of Depeche Mode for good measure, along with FourPlay. Over the week, I am sure I can put it through the paces a bit more with some of my more familiar material.

If there is one downside, and actually it was more of a technicality, it was that we couldn't play hires material with it. But when we were playing HD Tracks material, even with the OffRamp downsampling to 44.1, the characteristics I liked about the Killer were still apparent, even when compared to the material in native hires on the XDS1. Maybe there is something to be said about hold outs like georgehifi Wink who insist 16/44.1 is good enough.

I concur with what was said above..

On all material we tried to me the EMM Labs had a 'thick' quality - things were distinct but lacked subtlety and realism. The Killer was simply much more convincing.

I did a comparison a couple of days ago against the current PDX. Previously I preferred the Killer but the PDX didn't have the best valves, which are the Phillips SQ. This time it had the SQ valves and it was a lot closer. However I still preferred the Killer. The vocals were just so real, layered and harmonically convincing. The PDX was slightly bland in comparison, but on some material such as Sade - Smooth Operator it was definitely more alive - but was that some kind of false edge - I don't know - I preferred it personally - but there was the Killers vocals - which was for me more entrancing.

The GTG between the Killer, Phasure, AMR and new PDX should prove very interesting.

Thanks
Bill
128x128bhobba
aplhifi
515 posts
 
The problem is that the changing impedance levels of a passive preamp can cause coloration. That's why they usually seem to lack dynamics at lower listening levels. The Ayre sounds excellent at any volume level.

True, however, with such a low output impedance of your source, and using a high impedance amplifier, the coloration should be minimal. It always depends on the implementation, of course.

FWIW The mechanical switch on the Ayre only comes online to change the volume, then it is silent again. In fact, it is adjustable on a per input basis so theoretically you never need to change the volume again after you've set it to the right levels for each component that you normally listen to.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. When I said "I hear them" it meant that I could hear the added coloration coming from a mechanical switch. It does not matter how well and expensive the actual contacts of the switch are. This said, I use switching devices that do not have mechanical contacts.

Best wishes,
Alex
doggiehowser
672 posts
 
I haven't heard your preamp so I can't comment on it but my experience with a number of passive preamps is that the variable resistance does present a coloration at different volume levels.
kiwi_1282001
312 posts
 
Interesting thread.

So in summary the Killer DAC is a tone control rolling off highs and lows to massage the sound into something that tickles some listeners ears?

In doing this the killer DAC losses incisiveness, resolution and dynamic abilities but gains a pleasing richness and harmonic realism in mid-range presentation.

Would that be a fair summary?
aplhifi
515 posts
 
I haven't heard your preamp so I can't comment on it but my experience with a number of passive preamps is that the variable resistance does present a coloration at different volume levels.

I don't really have a preamp, it is more like a type of a hybrid integrated amplifier, made of three pieces, called HAS-M where the attenuator is built with non-mechanical contact devices and non-magnetic resistors. Interestingly enough, I don't hear negative effects of the variable resistance. Of course, the input resistance is constant. :-)

Best wishes,
Alex Peychev
bhobba's avatar
bhobba OP
303 posts
 
'So in summary the Killer DAC is a tone control rolling off highs and lows to massage the sound into something that tickles some listeners ears?

In doing this the killer DAC losses incisiveness, resolution and dynamic abilities but gains a pleasing richness and harmonic realism in mid-range presentation.'

No - its much more subtle that that - that's a reasonable summary of what it sounds like - but the reason is a lot more subtle.

Its got to do with the Phillip's chip used, the fact its NOS, and the way it been tuned.

The midrange sounds very palpable, real live and present. Bass is good, but against some other DAC's maybe slightly rubbery and one note. It lacks a bit of life and bite, again compared to some other DAC's.

But on the right material it simply sounds divine.

There has been a number of listening tests out our way with it against the DAC that won a shoot-out both were at - the new PDX. Many people, like me, prefer the Killer on midrange material like Peggy Lee and Cranky Franky. On other material such as Lenoard Cohen - its the PDX. It comes down to the material you predominately listen to - and of course system synergies.

Thanks
Bill
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