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EMM Labs Vs Killer DAC

Hi Guys

I was over at a friends place today hearing the Killer DAC compared to an EMM Labs DAC on his Thiel 3 ways which were fed by an AR Ref 5 pre and some SS monoblocks I cant recall the name of, but they are evidently similar to the Arion 500's which was thought to be just a bit bass shy in comparison.

Anyway here is his view which will be followed by mine.

Have to say there's a lot to like about the Killer, except maybe the name which seems to rub people off the wrong way.

I was able to use Bill's Offramp to feed I2S to the Killer and AES to the EMM Labs XDS1 simultaneously and was able to A:B easily between the two using the ARC preamp.

The EMM does a lot of things right for me. But the Killer sounds more natural in the end. The XDS1 seems to exaggerate differences - higher highs and lower lows but the end result (which on its own doesn't sound bad to me) is less listenable to me than the Killer in the AB. I loved how the Killer reproduced guitars in Fourplay's 101 Eastbound (HD Tracks) which made it "easy" to follow. Where the XDS1 reproduced the music, the Killer sounded like it was an organised quartet led by the lead guitar, with the rest of band accompanying him. I really enjoyed that quality.

When we listened to the Phasure a while back, there was a similar disconnect - the Phasure reproduced voices like Pat Barber with a raspy or gravelly quality - was it more detail? I thought I heard that with Joni Mitchell's Both Sides Now (DVDA rip) on the XDS1 today. The Killer was smoother but more natural. I've only heard Pat Barber once, in a club in Chicago many years ago and from memory, it seems to be somewhere in between. It wasn't quite buttery smooth, but it wasn't quite as gravelly as what I heard on the Phasure either. If I had to choose, I'd err on the side of the Killer.

When I first heard about the Killer, about how well it sounded with vocals, I can't say I was particularly keen to listen to it. I had written it off along with many warm syrupy slow Chinese tube amps I had heard int he past. But it wasn't the case. I even threw in a bit of Depeche Mode for good measure, along with FourPlay. Over the week, I am sure I can put it through the paces a bit more with some of my more familiar material.

If there is one downside, and actually it was more of a technicality, it was that we couldn't play hires material with it. But when we were playing HD Tracks material, even with the OffRamp downsampling to 44.1, the characteristics I liked about the Killer were still apparent, even when compared to the material in native hires on the XDS1. Maybe there is something to be said about hold outs like georgehifi Wink who insist 16/44.1 is good enough.

I concur with what was said above..

On all material we tried to me the EMM Labs had a 'thick' quality - things were distinct but lacked subtlety and realism. The Killer was simply much more convincing.

I did a comparison a couple of days ago against the current PDX. Previously I preferred the Killer but the PDX didn't have the best valves, which are the Phillips SQ. This time it had the SQ valves and it was a lot closer. However I still preferred the Killer. The vocals were just so real, layered and harmonically convincing. The PDX was slightly bland in comparison, but on some material such as Sade - Smooth Operator it was definitely more alive - but was that some kind of false edge - I don't know - I preferred it personally - but there was the Killers vocals - which was for me more entrancing.

The GTG between the Killer, Phasure, AMR and new PDX should prove very interesting.

Thanks
Bill
128x128bhobba
aplhifi
515 posts
 
You know Bill, around 24 years ago, I owned Sony and Philips CD players with TDA1541, and they sounded so great that I continued playing with those D/A converting chips until recent. However, the TDA1541 has been far outperformed by newer D/A converters, but this is irrelevant.

The truth is in the implementation. In other words, the truth is in the "allowed budget".

Above said, in my opinion, it is inappropriate comparing no-budget-all-hand-made boutique to a machine-made serial products.

Just my 2 cents, as usual. :-)

Best wishes,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi, Ltd.
bhobba's avatar
bhobba OP
303 posts
 
Hi Alex

Interesting view.

The EMM cost $25k - the Killer $5.5k.

In my experience commercial stuff usually (but not always) cant stand up to boutique stuff like the Killer - and the boutique stuff, interestingly is often cheaper.

As you would know however its all how it sounds and our reaction to it.

I am always happy to lend my stuff out. Rest assured there will will be posts where its reversed - the Killer being the one the Phasure or whatever bests.

Thanks
Bill
aplhifi
515 posts
 
Hi Bill,

Fair enough; we share similar views.

Just like you, I am always willing to lend my gear, whenever possible.

If someday there is a chance, I'd be very interested to hear your opinion about my reference APL DSD-M D/A converter.

Best wishes,
Alex Peychev
bhobba's avatar
bhobba OP
303 posts
 
Hi Alex

Sure - if there is some way I can get a hold of one will be happy to do it.

Would even arrange a GTG to check it out.

Thanks
Bill
doggiehowser
672 posts
 
I guess in the interest of clarity, I need to qualify some of the comments made here.

I am the owner of the EMM Labs XDS1 SACD player and the Killer DAC was tested in my system - Audio Research Reference 5 SE, Electrocompaniet Nemos, Thiel CS3.7 with SS2.2 smart subs (with S1 Integrator).

Theres no denying that the Killer is exceptionally great to listen to. But as I have stated elsewhere, this is just a matter of preference, rather than one DAC "killing"/"murdering" another :)

The Killer has the uncanny ability to highlight a lead component of the music - a saxophone, a guitar or the lead singer and the rest of the instruments sorta flows around it. There's a good sense of rhythm and the presentation is like a leader of a trio or quartet being in the spotlight, and being backed by the rest of his band.

All this has a small price IMHO. I believe the Killer does roll off the highs and lows, so the XDS1 showed a room bass node that the Killer did not. And with the Thiels, the highs can sound a bit crashy with the added detail of the XDS1. And where the XDS1 (and the Playback) shines is IMHO with the detail retrieval. I find myself being able to make out all the different instruments and layers and vocals in complex arrangements which can sometimes be an excellent revelation.

In my system, I did prefer the way the Killer sounded with the genres of music I threw at it, but it is also with the understanding that it is not quite completely neutral in its presentation. I do understand where the Killer's designer is coming from.
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