DAC woes - what to do

Hold your horses:
iDSD Mini

OTW#1: Audio has a new order...the micro iDSD
Octa-Speed DSD512 + 768kHz

Over the last few weeks we kept you guessing OTW#1 but along the way, gave some clues:
i. 3 Donuts
ii. Mention of “Damp squid”
iii. Picture of Godzilla and wrestling with Gezora

The ANSWER was that the micro iDSD is capable of OCTA-SPEED DSD512 and not only that but also PCM768kHz and 2xDXD (it is mega on all 3 formats)

Capable of full DSD512 and 768kHz PCM (2xDXD) directly from the computer to the micro iDSD via USB, natively with NO conversion - we have had to bite our lip as we have been absolutely gagging to tell you but had to keep refraining from letting anything slip.

By comparison, even the most expensive DACs in the world costing upwards of US$50,000, are a little “old hat” as they are several format levels behind only now, attaining:
DSD128 (one or two at DSD 256)
PCM384kHz

The iFi micro iDSD feature set means it has blasted light years ahead to bring true high-end technology to the mass market.

To summarise the micro iDSD’s Outta This World features:

Outta This World #1 Octa-Speed DSD512/PCM768/2xDXD

Outta This World #2 Perfect-Match with Headphone Power modes and iEMatch

Outta This World #3 Turbo headamp power output of 8v/4000mW

The micro iDSD is available in stores mid-July so you are only ~two weeks from having the Micro iDSD in the palm of your hand.

iDSD micro Crowd-Design. OTW#1. Audio has a new order!!! Did you guess correctly? (page 71) - Page 71

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For native rate playback...

What you say? There is no material at these high rates?
I guess they will have to come out with appropriate ADCs then...LoL

For the upsampling sub-culture, this will be a perfect toy and costing ony $500 plus tax in the US, while including the most versatile Headamp, a built in iPurifier and all those battery mode options, it really is a screaming bargain!

No worries, Lightspeed, you read me wrong if you think I was offended. I didn't design or build the Peachtree, I just bought a couple. And I have about as much emotional attachment as I do to the green beans I'll be eating for lunch today. Do I believe there's a night and day difference between any 2 DACs in the $500-$2000 range? No way - I'll write someone a check for the Brooklyn Bridge before I'd buy into that line of thinking. If you're hearing "no comparison" differences between any 2 DACs in the $500-2000 range, I'd suggest it's a function of system synergy (something I believe in strongly) and/or personal perception, rather than a function of 2 DACs having completely different flavors. And that's where the chase really lies, in finding system synergy...not just picking components, but creating a system that works together. Good luck with it dude.

Loftarasa - cool on the NAD. Direct to amp seems like best option. Im going to play with the dac1 like that too. Im just wondering if this little volume pot on the dac1 is cleaner than running it through a really sterile preamp like mine. Ill probably run them through my halo regardless, but configure its input for pass-through, to test the volume pot.

Wisnon - Never heard of that one. Seems to process A LOT? Not sure what to think.

Bcgator - Im definitely a synergy believer. Read on... :)

OK, so with the DAC testing, round 1.

A/B/C'd the dac1, zDac and rega. I actually have a makeshift way of making it "blind" by shuffling around the interconnect pairs behind the rack without looking, so I cant tell which input pair is which device.

So I start with a quick "lets see if I can tell which is which." Within 15 second of listening, the rega is differentiated. No question.

The shock was the dac1 and the zDac. I dont know if anyone has heard this little zDac, but it is quite impressive. There is very little difference in the basics of imaging, frequency response and overall detail.

It didnt take that long to distinguish them, though. The dac1, as expected from the press, was just a tiny bit more "revealing." Thats probably the best word for it. It is almost certainly rendering more bits, more perfectly, than the others. Its obviously meant to reproduce music exactly as it is recorded. But, I have to say that "revealing" doesnt always equal better sounding.

In all seriousness, this zDac is good. Like, really really good. Id say 95% of the detail and very similar overall sound. Musically, I have to say that its quite possibly more enjoyable with the majority of music. That missing 5% is almost total "edge" and space, and not necesarily missing anything that I want to hear.

I must say that it was really fun to, yet again, discover new voices in arrangements that Ive heard 1000x before.

Yes, I am now publicly admitting that definition and purity are not necessarily better sounding. But I do still prefer the definition of the dac1 and zDac to the rega.

However, I also must be fair to the rega and say that, with this smaller power amp, I like the rega's sound best on about 20% of the material. It does fit some genres of music, such as solo vocals or "hot" pop/rock...quite nicely.

Part of this might be the "synergy" people keep referencing. In this case, the dac, preamp and amp are all the same manufacturer.

But the other thing I now realize, and Ive heard this said before, but didnt listen, is this... Many producers, when they record, take into consideration that the majority of listeners will not have a studio-quality reproduction system. Producers will often alter dynamics and filtering of the recordings to create a certain sound as its reproduced by consumer grade equipment (especially stuff that is meant for broadcast play...) When you start to have reproduction that is this "pure," you start to hear things that the producers never expected you to be revealed.

And that appears the case here. Yes, the dac1 is the most detailed thing Ive heard to-date in my system. But, surprisingly, this zDac is nearly as detailed, and more musical more of the time.

At this point, Id already be willing to say the zDac wins overall, especially considering the price. The only problem with it is that it has audible transformer hum if youre within a couple of feet of it. I have very sensitive hearing, which doesnt help.

Both of my zamp amplifiers have the same transformer hum, so obviously this is a problem with these "z" series components overall. Im not sure how to deal with this. I cant hear it from any listening position, so its totally irrelevant sonically. But it just bugs me that they cant supply a toroid that doesnt hum. The giant ones in the HCA's dont. I guess this is one indicator of the price difference.

OK, so Im going to listen more tonight and probably take the rega back tomorrow. Although, Im seriously considering keeping both it and the zDac. The zDac and dac1 are too close to own both, although for an occasional, "active" listening sessions, I would like to have it. Not sure about the rest. We'll see if break-in changes anything on these.

For the record, I am running these setups open-ended thus far (on the dac1 and zdac.) I dont have an amp with balanced inputs (but I might by tomorrow if my local dealer has an a23 in stock.) If so, Ill re-test these end-to-end balanced.

Greetings,
So Ive made a determination after a long weekend of listening to these various things.
The benchmark is the "best" dac Ive heard thus far. It is the most accurate at rendering data into sound. Its quite a treat, most of the time. Its especially fitting for larger arrangements, or other pieces that otherwise get "congested." Of course overall, for a while, anyway, all that detail is quite impressive to hear.
The rega was, as expected, the most laid-back and warmest piece. Its interesting at times, because it does have quite good definition, but things tend to get lost in the mix more easily than with the others. Its the most "pleasant" overall to listen to, but it just gets a little muddy with a lot of material.
The zDac was the surprise here. It has 90-95% of the precision of the benchmark, with a bit more low-end actually, but not quite as defined upper-mid and high end. This additional low-end may actually be some bit of distortion, but its still sounds clean. The zDac is also "easier" to listen to for long periods.
Going through the exercise has been quite frustrating in areas, especially that now I have reason to re-think my amplifier selection.
So, the summary for now is that the benchmark and rega go back, and the zDac stays. This will give me time to step back and review the overall direction here. Ill be able to enjoy the still-substantial enhancement of the zDac until I find the "perfect" solution.
I appreciate everyone's feedback. The benchmark fans are correct, at least in my experience thus far. I have to say that the dac2 seems like it could be a strong choice, given how relatively old the dac1 design is, and its still the detail king in its price. And the dac2 actually has a power switch, a dimmer and a remote... which are nice in a home situation. I would have a hard time buying the dac1, knowing the dac2 exists.

Lightspeed-I have the Schiit Bifrost without USB. It simply crushed my Musiland and Music Hall (older one). It beat my Oppo 103 and Emotiva 200 as well. With that said, it's a great piece.
Recently I contacted Schiit to see about the USB upgrade and the uber upgrade. They were quite honest with me that at that price point, it really paid to just get into the Gungnir. It is that much better.
Want a Bifrost? I'd only sell it to get into a Gungnir.