2. digital
  3. 1403584341

DAC woes - what to do

Greetings,
Oh Boy!!! Another "what should I buy" thread! Yippee!!!
Seriously though... looking for some personal experience and potential recommendations.
Ive been looking for a new CD player recently, preferably in the <$1000 range.
I recently ended up buying a Rega DAC. Actually, I bought an apollo-r at first, but it was possessed by demons and wouldnt play most of my CD's (even new, non-scratched ones.) So, I exchanged it for the DAC instead.
I was lured into the Rega by its very unique sound. Its beefy but articulate and with good definition...or so I thought upon initial comparisons (I compared it with 6 different players in my home system, as well as many others at the shop.)
But, as it breaks-in, the "beef" is turning to "bloat" and the enchantment is waning. Its too "soft" up top to balance the low-end emphasis. Not to mention that one of the toslink connector "shutters" broke off inside the receiver on first attempt to plug it up, and is unusable now. And, the automuting pops/hisses when the transport is powered on (the demo DAC didnt do this.) So, Im already waiting for the replacement to come in. So now is the time to return it, if Im going to.
Anway, back on track... I admit, I got "sucked in" by the so-called "analog" sound, and I did enjoy it for a while. There is something unique about this Rega. The individual instruments are quite articulate, and the soundstage is enormous. But what Ive noticed that that, while the instruments are individually defined, they tend to get "lost" in the vast stage. Its very difficult to place them in relation to each other.
For example, I listen to mostly choir/choral, chamber and full orchestral works. I was originally enchanted to actually hear additional voices from music Ive heard 1000x before. It was very cool. And, the noise floor is extremely low...the instruments seem to come out of a black hole. Its almost eery, especially with dark arrangements. But more and more, especially with "busy," intricate voices, they've begun to "smear," for lack of a better word.
For the "record" (another pun,) I have a halo p7 pre-amp, parasound hca 1500 amp and paradigm studio 20 v5's (with a hsu sub.) Not hi-fi for many, but its a very "honest" sounding system, which is my intent.
I keep thinking back to this peachtree DAC I auditioned. It had better definition and "air" than the Rega (yes, I A/B'd them,) but the Rega destroyed it in the lower frequency response, and was therefore more impressive at the time.
So, Im afraid the Rega has to go back. Not counting the sound, Im a bit concerned about long time reliability (Im 0 for 2 right now with their reliability... not great.)
Im also afraid Im going to have to admit that I like a "digital" sound, as much as people seem to be afraid to admit that. I dont like analog bloom and "laid back" presentation, although I realize a lot of people do, and thats great. And Im convinced there is something out there near my price range that combines the "beef" of the Rega with the "sweet" and definition/clarity of the peachtree.
I dont have any music fidelity dealers here in Atlanta, so Im considering buying an M1 on a hunch. I hate to judge by reviews, but it seems the might be the "ticket" in this price range. Or maybe the Benchmark DAC 1, but again, I dont have any dealers locally to easily hear one.
So, in summary... I want Rega soundstage width, but with a tighter, less accentuated mids and lows, and brighter, crisper highs. Does anyone have any recommendations in the $1k range?
BTW, Im open to single-box players, but Ive listened to a ton lately, and I dont think Im going to find one with as good of an analog output section as many of the DAC's. That seems to be the "ticket" to the magic of the external DAC.
And for the record, I did listen to one much more expensive model, the NAD M51. I only listed to it at the store, and it seemed too bright compared a/b with the Rega, but that might actually be the ticket, especially after break-in. Ill probably demo it at home to compare before I return the Rega.
Again, I might consider the NAD or something like a Bryston BDA-1 at around $2k, but Id prefer to stay around half that.
Anyway, thanks in advance for any input.
lightspeed240
loftarasa
171 posts
 
Hey Lightspeed, I obviously like the M51 as I own it. It seems to be obtainable used at really good prices now.

If getting something new, you might want to look at the Rotel RDD-1580 or Metrum Octave.
lightspeed240 OP
18 posts
 
Greetings everyone... Thanks for all the responses on this. Definitely good to think about.

I got a wild hair today and I bought a benchmark. It will be here tomorrow.
I also bought a parasound zdac, as I have to give my historically favorite brand a shot, even though Im afraid it might be seriously outgunned. But who knows :)
I also tried to buy a bryston bda-2 at the same time (yes, I realize this indicates a serious problem with self-control,) but they could only sell me two of the same items at the same time (apparently its common for people to demo these LOL.)

BTW, 2500 is going to be the limit here. I can see this could easily get well out of control.

So, Ill have a "$1k dac shootout" this weekend and return the two "loosers." I realize the new ones wont have much burn-in time, but ill let them play for a couple days prior to a serious comparison. At least neither of the new ones will be at an advantage.
The "last $1k dac standing" will then face the Bryston and the NAD in a david vs goliath. Ill weight the results somewhat for price, presuming one of the big dogs "wins," but Ive decided that Ill spend the money on the more expensive item if its tangibly better.

A few quick thoughts on some of the responses...
I agree the audio note is seriously nice piece of equipment, but (1) its way too expensive and (2) I dont want tubes in my source. But I am not discounting tubes just because they are tubes. Ive been wanting a decware zen preamp for years. But I just dont want to even start down that path. Its the same reason I dont do vinyl...its a slippery slope. The last thing I need is something more to obsess about (such as trying to find my "favorite tube.")

I have to admit I didnt do a lot of homework on dac's before I started listening to them. I figured Id let my ears decide and my mind didnt get a say. My heart knows that its irrelevant what makes the sound, as long as I enjoy it. But, I am a tech-geek and my mind loves to consider the component specs. And the mind needs to be placated too LOL
Im hoping I didnt make a mistake on that benchmark already. I didnt know it did source rate conversion also. As a matter of fact, neither did the salesman, because I specifically asked it, and he said "no." I know the bryston, NAD and parasound do, so I was hoping to compare a new one that didnt.
I still think the best way should be to remove as much processing as possible. I am tech savvy and I understand the claimed benefits, but many of the most highly regarded setups dont upsample/upconvert anything. If Ive learned anything as a network architect, its that simple is almost always better. But, Im going to be open-minded and give them all a shot.

At this rate, It seems I may have to end-up with an audio note after all. But I have to think that the tube outputs would give it all the attributes that Im trying to avoid, so it seems.

If anyone would like to send me their audio note to include in the david vs goliath round, let me know :) Ill pay shipping and insurance LOL
lightspeed240 OP
18 posts
 
A couple of other comments (my last post got seriously bloated.)
Timrhu... I looked at the nuwave reviews online, and it did seem nice. Unfortunately, I do have a full-time job, and I just dont have the time to review all the good ones. Same for the woo audio... Seems great. But, after comparing the results, it seems the only coherent impression across different reviewers and different dac's is that the benchmark is cold/analytical/revealing (although these dont need to be mutually inclusive.) Most other dac reviews are all over the place. I read some people calling the rega "neutral" and "bright," but thats the opposite of my impression. Its totally subjective. But every single review and post on here says the benchmark is bright and revealing. When the cops and the crooks both agree on something...you might at least listen and consider :)

Loftarasa.. Do you use your m51 directly into a power amp? The thing that interests me most about the m51 is the digital volume for all inputs. I would have to think that it doesnt get any better than running that into a power amp directly. I have a rotel and another parasound amp (actually, 3 more parsounds) in the closet, so I was starting to think running the m51 into one of them for a totally separate 2 channel rig. (right now, my AV pre-pro does pass-through on the halo for multichannel, to share the bigger parasound.)

Obviously, the m51 is the king of processing...also the polar opposite of what I *think* I want, but if youre going to process it, going to PWM is the way to do it. Ive long wondering why that wasnt done, as it should eliminate all digital filter-related ringing. But why not just add a DSD receiver too, if ou have the basics of the processing there? Seemed a bit short-sighted. When I A/B'd it with the rega at the shop, it was too "bright." But now, it seems that my bias was skewed, and the rega was probably too "dark" in comparison. It may be just right.
What do you think about the m51 sound?

BTW, Im hesitant to buy a used DAC, as they are more delicate than power amps, which I do buy used if I can find one I want. But I appreciate the information on the used ones.

Wisnon... I really dig the lampizators. Like the audio note, i think the designs are simple and brilliant. But, as stated, I fear the additional compulsion that tubes will bring me.

Richardfinegold...we have very close tastes, it seems. I always liked B&W's. Both times I went down to audition a pair, I ended up with paradigms. Not sure why...something about paradigm studios I like. The new v5's especially. But I think the B&W's are great too.

Bcgator... dont take offense on the dac it. But there wasnt any comparison from around 1k down. There was another guy there who was in another room, and he knew I was A/B'ing them. Everytime Id switch them, I could hear him say "peachtree" or "rega" from outside. He was right every time. But as I said, it was super nice in the top end.

Finally... Dragon1952 (apologies for not responding to all...Ive been typing all day LOL, but I appreciate all the input.)
You are 100% correct. I re-positioned my mains and my sub when I added the rega. I had to. My room is crappy already, and it needs treatment badly (thats the next purchase after this...absorbers for the corners.) The extra low-end of the rega was making my already terrible standing-wave problem worse. And my paradigms are reflex ported, so positioning them in this room was never easy anyway.
erikminer
433 posts
 
Here's an idea.. Look for a nice used PS Audio PWD MKI .. The mark one's are going for cheap.. Then try and find someone who's upgrading to the new PSA Directstream from a MKII and try and buy the MKII guts.. you'll end up with a PWD MKII for about 1300.00 or there are a few PWD MKII that I've seen going for about 1600-$1900.00
lightspeed240 OP
18 posts
 
Erikminer - I just read about the direct stream DAC. Looks impressive. It appears to work much like the m51 though...although it also appears to process DSD...
What makes it 3x the price I wonder?
As with the m51, I think that conversion should eliminate filtering ring or aliasing.
Pretty cool, but out of my price range. Im hesitant to buy a used "anything with a chip..." Makes me wonder why people are getting rid of them... I know there are a lot of good used deals; Im just a skeptic sometimes.
More to discover