Cable Costs Relative to System


Since making a spread sheet with my audio system prices, I have been thinking(shocked) about my total investment in cables. My total system retails at $67,000 (Digital and analog front ends included). I purchased all of it here on Audiogon so my investment is about 50%. Of that I have about 10% invested in interconnects and cables and another 10% in Power Cables (Shunyata Hydra included). That's $13,000 worth of wire. I'm starting to question whether it might be more effective to put some of this budget into acitve components. It would take forever to listen to all possible combinations, but would like to hear others experiences with relatively high end systems and cable selection. It would seem to me that the point of diminishing returns would be reached sooner with cables than with speakers and amps. Do most of you follow the 10% "rule" for cabling? How do PCs fit into this rule? Are there any super bargain cables capable of keeping up with highly resolving electronics?
metaphysics
I often find the prices of some of these cables to be incredible. Certainly it doesn't cost considerably more to use teflon as opposed to PVC, or one grade of copper over another. Making jackets and tubes, braiding or twisting etc can have their own additional costs involved, but stuff like that is done for all kinds of cable, computer networks, power transmission, video etc, and it doesn't cost very much. The cost of designing, testing, prototyping and perfecting a design go into making more exotic designs more expensive but I can't see that these projects would take so long as to drive the cost up to these high levels. I was just looking at the Kimber Kable site this morning, and again this afternoon - they have a brand new site up and running - complete with price increases. 4VS up $1/foot, 4TC up $2.60/foot - and certainly the R&D costs for those cables has long since been recouped and the manufacturing of those is nothing new. The thing I found most laughable on their site was the breakdown for BiFocal X, its $120/foot, but a whopping $600 for termination! Who is terminating these things? The designer himself at $100/hour for nearly a whole day?

Now I can see that one company needs to keep up with the Jones' in order to maintain a certain level of reputation. If they determine that their cables match the performance of another company, they must charge a similar amount otherwise they seem like a "cheap" company in the sight of their customers, but geez, isn't this getting out of hand?

I didn't believe that cables made much of a difference as long as they were a certain quality, so I played around some, comparing zip cord to Kimber 8VS to some cheap hardware store wire that I twisted and braided in a completely unscientific way - and the cable I made myself indeed sounded terrible, and the others steps better, so I can see that there is something said for certain designs, and using quality components etc, but I haven't had the guts to lay out big dough to try the multi thousand dollar cables. Seeing how the components and designs don't warrant the high prices, I don't ever think I could bring myself to spend such a crazy amount on cables. The price is dictated by the market - somewhat like a fine wine, where it may not cost too much more to process than other wines, but because it turns out so well, it has a greater value. But by the same token, you can detect a much greater difference between a $4 bottle and a $40 bottle of wine than you could tell between a $40 bottle and a $400. I think once you get beyond the $40 bottle, its a bit crazy to spend the $400 - unless you have plenty of money. Some people have spent a considerable amount on the equipment, and can now afford to tweak with higher and higher priced cables and that's where the market is for those items. I think there really is a point of seriously diminishing returns.
Hey, what's wrong with the rating system? Just tried to give high marks and the thing came back as negatives. What's up, Audiogon?
I just did some quick calculations that showed I had about 14% of my 35K system in "wires". I believe in good wire, but also agree with Trelja in that I think excellent wire can be had without going too extremes. Where I think most of the high value wire lies is in the middle of a reputable company's line, eg I use Syn. Res. Mid-priced ICs and speaker cables, and I also use their SR/MC power cords. When I went up one notch in Syn. Res. ICs, there was minimal improvement but a doubling of cost. I have auditioned some expensive PCs that sounded worse than my SR/MCs. I concluded that I was already beyond the diminishing returns area. However, If the cost of my components doubled to $70K, I maybe really could take advantage of even better wire??? Only you guys with the high bucks systems can answer that? Cheers. Craig
I agree with you Garfish. You need competent wire and competent wire does not come cheap - just like the tyres on your Ferrari. Somewhere between 10% and 20% is sensible in my experience, including PCs. Most of the issue is finding the cable that works with your components.
My experience is that a specific cable MIGHT work like magic between a DAC and preamp but fail miserably between the preamp and power amp. Since most people don't experiment with what cables they have and where they work best in the system, much of this goes unnoticed or is passed over even by many folks that consider themselves to be "audiophiles". The same goes for people that use all of the same type of cable throughout the entire system. From this post you can obviously tell that i DO believe that it is appropriate to "mix and match" different cables and cables from different manufacturers to achieve the best sonics possible. I know this point of view breaks a lot of people's rules, but it is what i have found to work best. Having said that, i look back to the article on Salvatore's site about speaker cable. He highly praised both Goertz and Coincident as being some of the best available. As most of you know, those two cable brands are quite "reasonable" compared to many others on the market. While i've "praised" Goertz both here and at AA, i've never tried the Coincident. Between his "ranting" and the others here that have spoken highly of it, i think that i will give some of them a try. The only thing that i find "goofy" about the Coincident's is that they "claim" to need TONS of time to "break in". Even though i do own two different "cable burners", i still have a hard time with claims like that. Sean
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