Direct drive/rim drive/idler drive vs. belt drive?

"This is in COMPETE contradiction to the 'Platine Verdier' tt which on purpose applies a constant bearing friction-load to stabilise their high-mass platter."

By my way of thinking, the Verdier approach is far more elegant. The bearing friction load, if that is what to call it, combined with compulsive obsessive tight tolerances can act in a way similar to a grease bearing by also creating a dynamic brake of sorts. The beauty here is that it doesn't have obstacles, like misaligned magnets to deal with, or any influences that might be caused by them. It's a case of less is more in that less complexity is involved to achieve a result that may in fact be superior. It also indicates to me that the manufacturer has taken more care in a traditional approach, if his result is an extremely good one.

A manufacturer can use tricks like magnets as a workaround for the unwillingness to spend extra for precision machining or better materials. I'm not saying that any particular company is doing that, but I do see the possibility.

Summary: I don't buy into magnetic levitation for platters.

Win
Saskia Turntables

Lewm

There is effectively no damping effect available from the two opposed magnets. Eddy currents are proportional to field strength times relative velocity divided by electrical resistivity. The configuration used results in low relative velocity. The electrical conductivity of available magnetic materials is quite high - NdFeB magnets have about 100 times the resistivity of copper.

For all: A distinction needs to be made between velocity dependent drag, which will tend to stabilise the system against speed variation and classical friction (velocity independent) which will not. Hydrodynamic drag and eddy current effects are in the former camp, standard bearing friction and stylus drag are in the latter.

Mark Kelly

Lewm
what Quiddity is relating, as I seem to understand it, is that eddy current 'friction' is very much on the minimal side with the magnetic repulsion, almost levitation, ring magnet concepts. Also recall those magnets are only about 1/4" wide rings. To support this, it is told, that if these platter are (disconnected from the drive) pushed by hand seem to run 'forever' and thereby VERY MUCH differently behaving the 'Platine Verdier' mentioned by example.

Now go figure yet some more ... :-)
Axel
PS: a difference in VFT of .75g, now I'm running at 0.75g with an Empire S1000ZE/X (0.25g! - 1.25g spec) as compared to 1.5g spec. for a 'M20FL super' give the my controller a lot more 'pain in the a...' - it take just longer to settle. This is for me a clear indication about what friction (needle and/or bearing) does in terms of motor/controller loop-feedback/response...

Mark, Thank you for putting us back on the right track, as you always do. I had read somewhere else that the Verdier develops an eddy current effect by virtue of its apposed magnets, so I assumed that the same might be true of the Clearaudio. Are your remarks re the effect of bearing friction in agreement with Win's description of the virtues of the Verdier?

Lew,

Maybe I spoke out of school because I believe I am the one who may have confused the issue. Unlike either Clearaudio or Verdier, my turntable uses an eddy current motor. At least, I believe neither of them uses one. Anyway, I also am a believer in the use of hydrodynamic drag, as Mark calls it, so any reference to friction drag was maybe the source of confusion.

Win
Saskia Turntables