best phono preamps?


I heard the Jadis JP 80 MC and I was very impressed especially by the phono part. I have seen that Jadis builds a "only phono preamp" the DPMC. Any experience wih it?
which other phono preamp do you recommand?

my system:
Kuzma Stabi (looking also for new diamond)
Jeff Rowland Capri + monoblocs 501
Infinity Renaissance 90
clavil
I've been involved with the design and manufacture of phono stages of both styles discussed here - standalone phono stages without line stages, and complete preamps with built-in phono stages as well as attenuators and line stages. Based on first-hand experience, it is possible to build top-notch (as in award-winning) phono stages using either approach.

Either way has its pros and cons. As is often said, it is the implementation that matters the most. Integrating everything together has the advantage of ditching the pressure-contact interconnect (via the problematic RCA/XLR connector) in favor of a superior hard-wired connection. However, keeping separate power supplies for every individual circuit nearly always sounds better (including separate transformers), and it is logistically easier to do this when the phono circuitry is unemcumbered by the line circuitry and vice versa, i.e., the circuitry being addressed is as simple as possible.

Of course, it is feasible to integrate the phono circuitry with line circuitry, keep completely separate power supplies and still stuff everything into one chassis for the signal circuitry and another for the power supplies, but to do this right would call for chasses that would normally be chosen for use with a good-sized power amp.

If I didn't have to think of the preferences and preconceptions of the audio market (but for whatever reason wanted to back away from the technically superior but commercially inferior solution of active loudspeakers), my preferred solution probably would be a minimalistic integrated power amp with built-in input selector and attenuator (with separate chasses for power supplies and signal circuitry), paired with separate phono preamp (no level control), and line buffer amps with neither level controls nor input selectors - one line buffer amp for each source (except phono). And everything built as a mono unit.

BTW, I wouldn't recommend combining the phono preamp together with the power amp. The sound of the turntable is too much affected by vibrations transmitted through the air and ground. For top performance the turntable should be in a separate room/closet isolated from the vibrations and air pressure from the loudspeakers. If you were to go with a combination phono/preamp/power amp together with the turntable in an isolated room, the speaker cables would likely need to be v-e-r-y long.

Unless you went with active loudspeakers, which would allow you to ditch the power amp and speaker cables.

regards, jonathan carr
Now that we have top designers on this thread is it possible to have a concensus how to drive our beloved phonosignal in the most accurate way ?
Dear Jloveys: Our unit was designed for my( our ) own priorities ( like a music lover/audiophile ) and was designed not thinking to put on the market, this commercial subject occur by " accident " a welcome one but not our main priority including today.

Over my audio years I owned several audio items and I can remember those Zenith and Telefunken " consoles " that were all purpose items that comes with everything you need to sound reproduction: TT/tonearm/cartridge/Phonolinepreamp/amplifier/tunner, everything integrated in the same " body ".

After that I remember: Pionner, Sansui, Mackintosh, Luxman, etc, where these units were integrated Phonolinepreamps ( at least ), on those years there was not " separates ".

Time goes on and appear the separate units for different reasons where maybe the most important was a commercial one: charge a price for two units instead only one.
In those times the know-how between the customers and even between the manufacturers was really low aganist today overall know-how.

At the beguining the cartridges that I use it were MM type but later appear/discover the MC alternative and things change because some of the integrated units can't handle the MC ones and appear the step-up transformers ( that I use it for several years till my know-how improve to tell me that the SUT makes a heavy degradation to the cartridge signal. ) that till today IMHO are still making damage to the quality analog performance alternative.

So, for years I was looking for an active ( no step up: internal or external. ) and integrated ( cables and connectors from my point of view are one of he worst enemy against quality performance, unfortunately we can't live with out it. )
Phonolinepreamp, then I find a good unit ( for that time ) that can handle two cartridges ( MM/MC ) the Classe DR-7 ( that over the time I modified to improve its quality performance. ).

Ater this Classe I try/test sevreal integrated and not phono/line stages: FM Acoustic, Threshold, Audio research, Conrad Johnson, Gryphon, Audio Note, Levinson, Krell, Jadis, you name it.

No one meet my " music lover " priorities so we decided ( Josè and I ) that if we really want to achieve our targets we have to go for our own design ( this was more than 12 years ago ) and we did it and build our first unit ( battery power supply ) only to show if can " sounds " in a decent way , well what we heard was not a very decent performance but at least not sounded too bad, so we were exited for our " success " , btw it is really a emotional event when you design for the first time an audio item build it then test it and voila it " sounds "!!!

After this " lucky " event we put on paper our targets choosing the best trade-offs to obtain in the best way the top quality performance that we were looking for for too many years .

To write the targets was an in deeep research to understand not only the main functions ( why a Phonolinepreamp exist. ) that a Phonolipreamp must to have but to understand too the main challenges to design, test and execution of that design.

The result is the Essential 3160 Phonolinepreamp ( integrated, no step up, separate power supplys, separate dual mono line stage and separate dual mono phono stages in two stand alone chasis/boxes. ).

This was and is our approach any trade-off here is something that we accept and choose in favor of quality performance, of course that from a different point of view like be Jcarr it self the approach could be different and cetainly the performance can/could be different too.

Jloveys, don't be disapointed because I can tell you that almost any designer choose the trade-offs that for him are the best ones: sometimes by commercial subjects.

You can read here that like Atmasphere we choose almost the same alternative that is: an integrate Phonolinepreamp.

Every designer has its own ideas ( like Manley or Lamm that choose step-up transformers and stand alone units. ) and I can asure you that everyone can explain you in deep its approach advantages and disadvantages.

So, which is the best approach? ( everything the same ), a question that has several answers as several designers exist and certainly this is not the right forum to speak in deep about, what I can say to you is that in general all those designers has more in common about that differences. As Dan point out: there are no absolutes here! and that's why many of us ( designers or not ) follow looking for the " heaven " about.

The real reward about is that the customer has several very good alternatives and I think that the very best it is for coming!

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.