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VPI HW-19 Upgrade question SAMA or SDS?

OK, the upgrade bug has bitten again, and I know that ther are a number of folks here that have lots of experience with their HW-19.

I have a VPI HW-19 Mk III that I recently upgraded to a Mk IV with a TNT platter with an inverted bearing. Also, it has a sorbathane puck suspension rather than springs, and I've replaced the rubber feet with cone type spikes. The table dead level sitting on top of a 1-1/2"-inch thick maple top shelf of a very heavy flexi-rack. I'm using an ET-2 arm connected to my shop compressor with four stages of precision air-regulation with the final stage adjustable just before at the entering the ET-2. I just air-up the compressor's 30 gallon tank, then kill the compressor so that it won't start back up, and I can listen for hours (wife think that I've lost my mind every time that I do this, but that's another story). Also, I'm currently listening to an AT33PTG that I have come to really like. The phono section is a Threshold SL-10 upgraded with Black Gates throughout.

The Mk IV upgrade made a real difference from the Mk III. As I quickly found out, the Mk IV presents a fuller soundstage and better base than the Mk III platter/bearing. I view that upgrade as well worth the money, especially buying it used here on A'gon.

Here is my dilemma with funds being limited to purchase only one or the other at this time, but not both - at least for now.

What do you think would be the best upgrade for this HW-19? A new SAMA for $400, or a used SDS for $600 to $800? Used SAMAs never seem to come up for sale, but you can always find a used SDS on Audiogon. I think that there are at least three available for sale here as I write this.

Also, if someone thinks neither mentioned upgrade would be cost effective, and that money would be better spent with an upgrade elsewhere, please say so. I'm trying to keep my mind and ears open - for better sound!

Thank you!
forrestc
siramazing
9 posts
 
How about the new "super-platter? Has anyone tried that? Also, I have a MK IV with springs, and have bought some sorbothane to replace the springs with.How thick should I cut the pieces? Any suggestions appreciated.
stringreen's avatar
stringreen
6,398 posts
 
Frogman..I am a professional violinist and have played in many orchestras over the many years of my career. If you listen to classical music I know you have heard me play. I carefully tune in the warm-up room as do everyone I know, and very rarely have to retune when I get on stage. As we play the piece we constantly adjust our pitch so that it sounds in tune. The horns and reeds do it with their lips as they play, the strings do it by adjusting the fingers on the fingerboard. When I play my violin I am quite positive that the heat of the stage lights, and the very act of playing puts the strings slightly out of tune, so that I am constantly adjusting my finders so that it sounds good with my partner and the rest of the orchestra. The adjustments are slight, but very important to keep us together. We are taught as students to play the open strings only as passing tones and to take the open string note in a different position, so that the pitch can be adjusted. As a matter of fact, depending on the key, there are notes (leading tones, etc.) that are purposely played higher (out of tune) than would be in tune for effect. I maintain that pitch is a variable function of the performance. That being said, a turntable MUST have a constant rotation so that the pitch isn't changed within a shorter time segment...that is wow and flutter are no, no's. I live in a very nice house, drive very nice cars, and eat in very nice restaurants all from playing my violin. I am not saying that gross distortion of pitch is acceptable, but I for one cannot tell the difference in sound if the dots on the VPI stobe are slowing drifting clockwise or counterclockwise. I fully understand what you are saying and that pitch does have an emotional effect...that's why conductors choose if the tuning A should be 440, or 441.
buconero117
2,311 posts
 
I vote for the SDS, which I use on a VPI, and it was a big improvement. Now about Stringreen's comment on pitch. I have many pre-recorded reel to reel tapes. Two of my tape machines have pitch controls. But given VPI's approach I assume putting an SDS in the line for the R2R would approve the sound. So, the question: Is their a 'strobe' that would help me tune the R2R?
stringreen's avatar
stringreen
6,398 posts
 
Buconero117... the SDS IS and improvement not because of the trick that you can change the pitch, but because the SDS provides a constant and reliable electric source for the motors. The sound IS improved with its addition because the turntable revolves at a constant speed with far less short term variation. ..and that is why belt drive turntables that use string instead of elastic belts and the reason that the Lenco and VPI rim drives et al is so far superior to its belt drive counterparts. Short term speed variations are very greatly reduced. On another note... VPI has a plastic stobe that I got with my tonearm...I presume you can purchase it through VPI and regular purveyors of such items. Go to Home Depot and get a fluorescent night light...mine is an Aperitac model 73068. The cost was about 4.99 on sale. Use an extension cord for convenience, look down at the correct band of the strobe turning on your table and adjust the SDS so that the dots seem to stand still. If the dots are moving clockwise, push the downward arrow on the SDS which slows down the table, and v/v,,,,, you're in business.
stringreen's avatar
stringreen
6,398 posts
 
Sorry Buconero...I misread your question...I thought it was for a turntable.
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