Got a New CD Player and Now I'm Bummed

Dodgealum,

I see several good suggestions in posts above. What I would like to know is: What areas of your vinyl performance are you no longer satisfied with. Each of us have different priorities and those priorities can make a significant difference in the direction we go in terms of upgrades. I'm not asking so I can to offer advice on what you should purchase. I'm simply asking in order to better understand your situation in terms of the contrasting output from both sources.

If you don't mind sharing the details, I'd like to know more about the differences you are experiencing between source components.

Thanks,
Dre

Dougdeacon, I complete agree with your assessment on the Scout. For the
price it is an excellent table but the next step (as I mentioned already above)
bring huge improvements in analog playback.

Just a quick comment on one of your points as I think there is a way around
point 2:

2. The Scout is driven by a rubber band (in effect). No
drive mechanism containing elastic torque couplings can maintain constant
speed when faced with a variable load (ie, stylus drag). That is not an opinion,
it's basic engineering. My platter weighs more than your entire TT. It has
several times more rotational inertia than your platter. Yet if I switch to an
elastic belt like yours my sonics go instantly downhill. Transients are dulled,
dynamics are softened, bass is limp, mids and highs are smeared. All the
tweaking in the world will not eliminate the flaws inherent in an elastic drive
train.

I generally agree with the statement about elastic belt drives, but I do need to
add that there are implementations that get around most of these problems
without resorting to sheer mass: The DPS table features a friction bearing so
that the motor continuously works against a large constant drag. This
simulates a much heavier platter and also makes it immune to the variations
in the neglible drag of the stylus. This is a very different situation from the
one where the stylus drag is dominating. A very well know tonearm
manufactures has mentioned the DPS 3 as one of the 5 best tables around for
a reason ;)

From my experience the DPS is the only table I listened to that was on par
with some of the high mass tables like Thom's Galibier tables without the
heavy and problematic mass loading. I would not be able to put a 150 lbs
large monster in my small place - the 50 lbs of the DPS are enough. A high
mass table like Teres or Galibier may in fact be problematic for Dodgealum
on his wallshelf as well.

Overall I agree though, to beat the Esoteric in all regards you need to resort
to different table than the Scout. As mentioned above, a friends Scout is very
good but now quite on par with the Esoteric in my experience. Aside from
Teres, Galibier, and DPS, I would also look the TW Akustik Raven One,
Loricraft Garrard, Amazon Model One, although I don't have as much
experience with these last three.

Good luck!

Dodgealum,

Thanks for taking my post as it was intended, and not as an idle trashing of the Scout. As you, Jdolgin and Restock all said, it's a great rig at its price point. But price points require compromises. Comparing a $2K component to an $8K one just isn't fair - unless the cheaper one wins of course. :-) I wouldn't put my Denon DVD-3910 up against your X-03SE (except for movies!)

Restock listed the tables that I would, along with some others. ;-)

An Amazon would fit your space but they're driven by a belt that's thinner and stretchier than yours. I'm not sure how much of an upgrade it would be, though you could easily put a better arm on it.

Garrards can be an effort to keep running properly if bought used, and $20K+ if ordered new. Proceed with your eyes open.

Teres is abandoning belt drive for rim (Verus) and direct (Certus) drive. The Certus tables are $14K+ and too big for your space. The Verus has some implementation peculiarities which cause polarized responses. Many (most?) people love it, especially rockers and those upgrading from lesser rigs. Some incredibly picky classical and acoustic jazz twits (like Paul and me) found it unlistenable. It depends on one's pitch sensitivity and whether one demands tonal, temporal and harmonic clarity. A Verus would certainly outplay a Scout by a large margin. Whether it would fit your budget, space and preferences is up to you.

No experience with the Raven One or DPS tables. Restock's description of DPS's approach to stylus drag was interesting. It's technically correct that constant, high drag is the mathematical equivalent of high rotational mass. Either one presents inertia, which reduces the amplitude and velocity of stylus drag decelerations. Properly implemented, it sounds like a nifty way to stuff *some* of the benefits of a very massive platter into a smaller package. Tricky to do well, but maybe they have. It's gotta be worth a look.

Galibier's entry level Serac table ($3250) would stomp all over a Scout. It addresses the issues I mentioned above almost as well as my $6K Teres. Excellent motor. Superb bearing. Same non-stretchy drive belt. My only advantage in speed stability/stylus drag resistance is a heavier platter. The main question for you is: would it fit. Check it out.

Finally, I agree with Lewm's most recent post (except for the "pig-headed" thing). Trying a non-elastic belt would cost you nothing and would be educational. A fellow A'goner, prompted by my insistent postings on this topic, DIY'd a mylar belt for his VPI Aries or TNT (I forget which). He's been stunned by the improvement, even though the VPI motor is not the ideal candidate for a linear drive belt. It would be worth your time to make this experiment. A used SDS or Walker controller would also be a low-risk upgrade, as he pointed out.

Happy hunting. Don't forget to enjoy the music during all the madness.

Doug

One table I forgot to mention in my previous post:

Frank Schroeder has designed a new table which has an interesting idea for using a tape drive. I think it will be marketed by Artemis. Soundwise it is little of an unknown although you know what to expect from Frank's products.

Sorry about use of the phrase "pig-headed". Perhaps "close-minded" would have sufficed and would have seemed less harsh. No offense intended to anyone.

Guys, do you really think that a light platter with a friction bearing is a perfect analogue of a very heavy platter with a low-friction bearing? It would seem to me that those two behave very differently when rotational force is reduced. The heavy platter with a low friction bearing will want to go on spinning "forever" (in the complete absence of bearing friction), while the light platter cum friction bearing will rapidly slow down. Therefore, in actual use, when the platter is subjected to the opposing forces of stylus drag vs torque applied by the drive belt, the two approaches would give different results. Both designs can work well; I just don't think they are alike.