Why the sudden popularity of 12 inch arms

Inept, Please proof your last sentence and repost. Lack of clairvoyance is unfortunately, also one of my maladies. Also, you don't HAVE to address me as Dr.Z. Mr.Z. Or Sir Z. will suffice. I am flattered. If there is a camera here you can see me blushing right now, yes? One last thing, I do seem to remember one or two vehicles with a disc (that is to say a disc of the non drum variety) E brake on the driveshaft. Quite common on Hot Rods at the tranny end. Porsche did it on the 924/944/928 cars, if memory serves. When can we start on vehicle dynamics? Really one of my favorite subjects! Z.

heh dudes, you can discuss cars and drum brakes on rev head asylum.

Raul

" VPI, comes from SAEC." I had a search around the web. Since when does any VPI arm remotely look like or behave like a SAEC arm??.

Raul, I am not looking for any specific 12 inch arm, other than my VPI 12.7.

My original question was, why are SME, Schrodher, Brinkman, Kuzma now making 12 inch versions of their 9 inch arms???

Roy Gregory strongly believed that all the 12 inch arms were audibly superior than the 9 inch equivalents.

Yet, with your 6 "crappy" (yes my words)old out of production 12 inch arms, you indicated that the 12 inch arms sounded no better than the 9 inch arms.

Why can RG so strongly recommend that 12 inch seems to be the way to go now, yet you virtually dismiss it based on your old arms. Have you actually heard any of the arms RG was reviewing?? or is he full of shit??

Would a phantom or triplaner or even Cobra sound better if it was designed correctly at 12 inchs, rather than the current size.
It seems that no one has an opinion on this question??

The reason is, this Design can be sold. The world has to go round.
That's it.
And lots of Arms - even today- are not perfect, or have problems with bearings, work only well with some cartridges..., or the turntable is not able to show all differences or to bring out the best from every design ... there are various reasons.
When you don't believe it, buy a Phantom Arm and 2 identical Cartridges and the compare it. You will hear differences, but is the 12" (or all) really better?

To shed a little light and (I hope) not too much heat on this debate, I know from experience that Raul notices and values some aspects of audio reproduction while not noticing or valuing others as much. We all have listening biases of course, but some of Raul's may have a direct bearing on the issue being discussed here.

Raul does not much notice or care about two things that happen to matter a great deal to Paul and me: very low level detail and harmonic overtones. This was evident during his visit last year when we compared his preamp with ours. OTOH, Raul is very attuned to strong, tight extended bass and full dynamics, among other things. We each have our listening biases and those, IME, are his.

The reduced tracking angle error possible with a longer arm will be most audible in reduced HF distortion and tighter, more stable imaging. These are areas where Raul's sonic antennae are less sensitive than some others. Not a dig, just an observation.

OTOH, a shorter arm is (all other things being equal) less flexible and should therefore produce stronger dynamics and tighter bass. Raul is highly attuned to these areas, so in a shorter arm may indeed sound more lifelike to him.

Of course the materials and manufacturing advances referred to by Zieman and others may now indeed allow arm manufacturers to provide the best of both worlds. But I thought it might help understand the differing views being expressed if one participant's listening preferences were explained by a third party with no axe to grind in this particular argument.

Thomas, Yes I believe it is. You correctly suggest when employing as close to The Scientific Method as possible, one can A-B for oneself. I give credit to the engineers and designers to have done at least some of that for me. Reduced tracking error is a gimme. Materials and measuring tools, costruction techniques and equipment that were not available or affordable just a few moments ago, allow the theory to be realized in the form of product we can employ for more accurate reproduction. Competition for market share helps us pesky end users more able to afford this new advantage. Plus they look killer, remember? Z