New analog system disappoints, please help


Hi,

I recently decided to get back into analog after a long break. Being on a budget I bought a used system from a local seller. The system consists of a J A Michell Gyro SE with DC motor, SME 309 tonearm and Transfiguration Spirit cart. I also bought a new old stock, factory sealed Plinius Jarrah phono stage. The Gyro, 309 and spirit where all purchased new in 2002 from a L.A. area high-end dealer and set up for the original owner in his home. They have remained there undisturbed and virtually unused since (maybe 15 to 20 hours total use)

After getting it all home I set up the turntable on a carefully leveled rack and tried the bounce test for the suspension. What I got was more like the Jello jiggle than a nice verticle bounce. I followed the instructions I found online for adjusting the suspension (several times) and although not perfect the bounce is much better. I have not touched the tonearm/cart alignment as I know little about this. I left the Jarrah set to factory default high output and adjusted the loading to 100ohms (recomended for the spirit)

After a 24hr burn in for the Jarrah I started to listen to some LP's. The sound is not bad, there is nothing obviously wrong but it sounds slightly recessed, flat and lifeless. I guess I was expecting more even from a relatively modest system like this. It doesn't "blow away" my digital source.

The rest of my system consist of Art Audio VPS DM pre, Art Audio Diavolo amp, Lector CDP-7T-MKIII and Spendor sp100 speakers. Cables are a mix of Nordost Valkyra and Quattro fil.

Any suggestions, incite or setup help would be greatly appreciated.

Emilio
emiliop
Hello Emil,
read your quesries also over at a-asylum, and while there were some good replies, some were of no use IMO, and after reading some, I was ready to hit myself over the head with a Frying Pan. Sometimes, it's torture distiguishing Diamonds from BS!

You seem to wish to stay in the Analog game, and as other sensible posters have stated, and although I know it's very hard, try having a bit of patience, and as you said, it is time you get some tools, and see for yourself what the deal is, with the parameters of alignment, VTF, VTA, and your Pre-Amp.

I am unaware what setting are available on your Plinius. These should be in the owner's manual, and would like for you to post them here if you could. This would be a help. I understand the TT Cartridge has a .4mv output? What gain settings are available on the Plinius Jarrah? You probably need to be ataround 58db-60db Gain.

As for loading, and as is recommended, Transfiguration suggests 100 ohm. Why another suggested 47 ohm, is beyond me? With interal Impedance at 10ohms, perhaps nsgarch's rule of thumb might apply, and use-try the 25X rule, which would be 250 ohms. Even try 500 ohms, or 1k ohms if available on your unit. As I mentioned earlier, no harm can be done.

Insufficient gain will hinder performance. Too much gain will also sound horrible, with distortion.

I recommend at least getting a Shure Stylus Force Gauge for $24 minimum. The Micro Tech Digital Scale at MusicDirect is nice, I have one, and it is accurate, serves its purpose, and easy to use.

Doug Deacon has suggested to me the Turntable Basics Mirror Protractor, and this is a bargain at $20 plus shipping. I understand SME uses thier own Protractors, but I don't think you'll go wrong with the Protractor I recommend.

VTA will also be important, and I do suggest seeing exactly how the Arm sits, while the Cartridge actually sits on an LP. (The Platter does not have to be in motion) As was suggested to me, a 3"x5" Ruled Index Card folded in half like a little tent, set on the Platter, or Plinth, and use this to sight the Arm, may help you detemine how the Arm actually sits. Definitely start out level, and go from there, higher, or lower at the back in very small increments.

Others started thier babble about SS versus Tubes, and this of course is all Malarky, and Baloney. Though I won't discount the fact that there could be an incompatibility between Phono Stage, and Cartridge, if Gain isn't correct for your Cartridge.

The Jarrah doesn't appear to be the world's best, this you know, but again, this Unit does sound like a very good Unit.

You may find in your area some great guys at local Audio Shops, who will give you friendly, helpful assitance. In the olden days, Guys like Jim Davis, the owner at MusicDirect in Chicago would "give me" whatever I wanted to try at home, Interconnects, Phono Stages, whatever, to try, and experiment with. Most the goodies he usually gave me, wound up being bought. Hope you can find folks like this to help you. Mark
unless the entire set up is fully broken in there is nothing really to adjust I think. 15-20 hours on the cart is nothing. 24 hours on the phono stage is nothing.
Give the system 200 hours and periodically check VTF to make sure it is in the ballpark.
Took my Benz cartridge over 75 hours to break in and more than twice that time for the phono stage.
Just wait and see. Nobody can guarantee it will sound better than your cd player or if you'll like it better than your cd player, and I don't really think that it should, but it should definitely sound good.
I don't have a large record collection but some things do sound better on cd and some sound better on vinyl. Generally, to me, classical sounds better on vinyl for the most part if I am to compare same recording on CD and on vinyl(although lots of things come into play there too, not just the media), especially the strings have more of a natural tone and intonation. Good luck.
I owned a gyro for several years with a rega 300 arm and van den hul frog cartridge. (my daughter is using now). it was not a dull system. One key to optimizing the system is getting the suspension functioning properly then after that, optimizing the cartridge functions (vtf/vta/overhang)is critical. I was amazed of the impact of the sound once I got this area optimized. I do not know the arm you are using but it must be easier to adjust than the rega (vta is a problem with most lower level rega arms). Also, check the stylus to see if you have buildup on it. lint, or other buildup will make the sound very dull. As far as the suspension, make sure you have the bearings in the top of the springs lubricated. SOunds stupid, but it makes a difference.
Maybe your phono setup doesn't have enough gain.
do you have a voltmeter to measure output from CD and from the phono stage ( while music playing )
2v to 3v is probably what you get.
What vinyl are you using to test your system.. my old vinyl quality was boring with no dynamics... so I went and bought some reference recording (new stuff 180gram pressing's which doesn't mean they will be good FYI) and WOW..what a difference... my other friends even after using record cleaners and steaming find their old collections don't get close to their digital. You have a revealing digital system and so this is a much harder comparision.

The suggestion about bearing oil is excellent!

GET SOME NEW VINYL to test..