Turntable Pre-Echo Sound....?

04-16-07: Heyitsmedusty

"Wow, I can't believe I actually nailed what the sound is called in my post title. It's literally a pre-echo!

I have never heard of this phenomenon. Do more expensive cartridges make this better, or does their better tracking make it worse?"

Yes, it's "pre-echo". It comes from two sources:

1) Tape print-through. In thin tape, the strong magnetism from a loud passage can affect the adjacent layers of the tape. This is called "print-through". Good studios avoid this by keeping tapes from winding too tight and frequently rewinding them, so they don't sit in the same position for too long. Also, using thicker base helps, because the tape surfaces are farther apart.

2) Adjacent groove modulation. If grooves are too close together, they can be affected by adjacent ones.

There is no remedy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_Records

"In 1961, Mercury enhanced the three-microphone stereo technique by using 35mm magnetic film instead of half-inch tape for recording. The greater thickness and width of 35mm magnetic film prevented tape layer print-through and pre-echo and gained in addition extended frequency range and transient response. The Mercury 'Living Presence' stereo records were mastered directly from the 3-track tapes or films, with a 3-2 mix occurring in the mastering room."

You can only hear pre-echo during a silent groove, but it actually goes on throughout the LP, and constitutes a form of distortion.

And of course that distortion is inaudible, contrary to the far lower distortion introduced by, say, a digital facsimile of the same recording, which everybody can hear!

Bob P.

04-16-07: Heyitsmedusty
Wow, I can't believe I actually nailed what the sound is called in my post title. It's literally a pre-echo!

I have never heard of this phenomenon. Do more expensive cartridges make this better, or does their better tracking make it worse?

In my experience, line contact type tips usually make this artifact more audible than a conical tip - probably due to taller contact footprint on the groove wall.

This may be one reason that the Denon 103 (which uses a conical tip) actually produces less measurable distortion than some high priced cartridges with line contact tips. I also wonder if this has some bearing on the 'musical', coherent sound that is a feature of the 103.

You can read more on 'groove echo' here.

Eldafort says, "You can only hear pre-echo during a silent groove, but it actually goes on throughout the LP, and constitutes a form of distortion".

Hello, are you sure about this? I have a number of LPs with pre echo. I have never thought about this possibilty.
I must say though that I have never heard any detriment to the sound except for the pre echo. I guess my question would be; are you sure that it continues throught the record or is it lmited to certain areas on the LP? I will listen with this in mind the next time I listen to an LP with pre echo. Certain aberrations on LPs auch as rumble, distortion, groove or vinyl noise can be transient, is pre echo?
Bob