Thanks for the welcome Michael/Oregon, and thanks for the kind words Michael/Mikeyc8.
Hi M167607: my opinion here is not set in stone, but is a combination of experience (the Grados in particular seem happier on '250s, a friend uses this combo to stunning results) and seemingly near-universal consensus that the '250 is the superior tonearm. With MCs anyway, and with both rewired and with identical metal end-stubs/counterweights (RB-300), I always found the RB-250 relatively grainy and bright/harsh. With smoother/slower MMs (like the Grados), this would be counted a plus in many systems, leading to a better balance, which I think partly explains the adoration of the '250s. A complicated situation. The two tonearms differ as well in the vertical bearings, which are very different one from the other (and yet another reason the ‘250 is considered superior); as well as the spring-being-audible thing (I know all the arguments, but trust my ears), which can be addressed by simply applying some grease to kill any ringing, if one is really worried (but a fair comparison does reveal the ‘300’s greater smoothness/refinement, so what exactly is being heard apart from neurosis?), and preserve the extra flexibility the dynamic downforce offers. One has to remember that the whole ‘250-is-superior thing started with Origin Live, which established itself as a business by exactly this claim, offering upgrades to the ‘250 (just as the current slate craze for plinths started in Wales, a world exporter for slate, with no comparisons done against other stones) which became very popular.
With MCs however, and also as the systems go up in terms of resolution and high-frequency extension, the picture changes and I find the RB-300 quite a bit more refined, and especially so as the MCs go up in quality. It also works extremely well with the Shure V15s, and likely certain other MMs. Anyway, it's probably more complicated than this, but I'll stand by the general sonic differences between the two arms, one being more aggressive ('250) and the other smoother and more refined ('300). Of course, as the MCs get better, especially in high-resolution, extended-highs systems, the RB-300 increasingly takes the lead.
After hearing Michael's system, which excels in imaging, soundstage, and easy differentiation of instruments as I could definitely hear, I decided to re-insert my own EL-84 based amp, my rebuilt Leak Stereo 20. I’d already mounted my Oracle Thalia/Benz Ebony H (which I ended up with due to a series of accidents) to the Rega with excellent results, bearing out the superb quality of this currently maligned tonearm, as is fashionable today to do, people forgetting that once upon a time the Rega RB-300 was the new Enfant Terrible of the tonearm world, being a victim in the public mind of its own success.
I am a media analyst by trade, a researcher who is paid to analyze how the reporting of facts and rhetoric are used to influence people’s thinking, and the results. So please indulge me as I find these developments fascinating, as I did the rise of the Belt and the “blacklisting” of the Idler.
Many believe the Rega followed the SME V, being a cheaper copy. The reverse is true, as everyone knew back in the ‘80s: the RB-300 came out first, in 1983, to great acclaim. It won an engineering award for its extra-long casting. SME followed in 1984 with its prototype SME V (the finished product came out later), as SME themselves admit, showing a greatness of spirit seemingly utterly lacking today: “The new SME arm aims to solve a major headache in one bold stroke, one already partially addressed by Roy Gandy in his Rega RB300.” I often read, when I very infrequently cruise the forums to see what’s being said, about the very poor construction of the Regas. Excuse me, but what the Hell are they talking about?? Its one-piece cast armtube is evidently superb. Its bearings, horizontal and vertical, have no detectable play: anyone who has handled several tonearms can feel its evident superb quality. Are they talking about the plastic arm-lift/antiskating platform? Most tonearms have these made of plastic. And the Rega is cheap. It was the Roksan/Rega combination which knocked the then-reigning King of Turntables, the Linn LP12/Ittok pairing off its throne, as reported in the world hi-fi press at the time, none other. It was as a result of the Roksan/Rega pairing that the door was opened for varying designs, and brought high end American record players into the mainstream of hi-fi (the honourable ARs aside), by leading to the proliferation of design, since the Roksan broke the three-spring suspension rule, allowing the acceptance of alternatives (which many still resist, considering a three-spring record player to be still the only acceptable option).
People often have to go after the Big Gun, not out of a desire for the “truth”, but simply because they are so motivated. This leads to unfortunate results, as knocking the Regas out of various forms of ignorance and misplaced aggression only promotes the Audio as Status agenda, making the ultra-expensive tonearms more secure in their assumed superiority (based on their price tags). I started the Lenco/Idler change as a way of combatting the Audio as Status sickness (I was laughing as I wrote out the title of the first thread, “Building high-end 'tables cheap at Home Despot”, knowing I’d be tweaking the noses of these types), but this is far from over, as it infects even idler fans (who go after such unobtainium as EMTs and automatically assume superiority, and ditto DDs, the rarer and more expensive, the more the assumed the superiority…the price tag is the product to these types, and this further contaminates the search for facts/truth). New exclusivity clubs arise, and Rega-knocking by ignorant budget audiophiles, relying also on Origin Live marketing, unwittingly supports and nurtures this agenda.
Anyway, all that investigated and aside, installing the Thalia was like adding a subwoofer to the system after the Dyna Karat Ruby, but it lacked the absolute speed of the Ruby, as most, if not all MCs do. So I hooked up the Leak hoping to balance this out, and the result is music, glorious music: smooth, fast clear, lush, rhythmic, gorgeous. I suspect the longer I am away from the Karat, the less I “remember” its great speed. For now, I’m satisfied with the Lenco/Rega/Thalia, but will likely try the Karat again at some future point. Though ultra-fast and detailed/organized, the Karat is tonally/atmospherically threadbare as compared with the glorious richness of the Thalia/Ebony, not to mention the matter of the bass. Two presentations, both of them enjoyable (since both excel at PRaT and gestalt/togetherness).
Anyway, have fun with your various projects/plans all, take what you read with a few tons of salt, do your own research, exercise that rarely-mentioned and fading thing called "critical thinking" (and by this I mean **thinking** based on knowledge/research, not blindly attacking for the helluvit) think for yourselves, and trust your ears!! 'Scuse me for this return to the past, Ranting Into the Void, it just happened, Vive la Lenco, Vive la Idler Wheel!!
Hi M167607: my opinion here is not set in stone, but is a combination of experience (the Grados in particular seem happier on '250s, a friend uses this combo to stunning results) and seemingly near-universal consensus that the '250 is the superior tonearm. With MCs anyway, and with both rewired and with identical metal end-stubs/counterweights (RB-300), I always found the RB-250 relatively grainy and bright/harsh. With smoother/slower MMs (like the Grados), this would be counted a plus in many systems, leading to a better balance, which I think partly explains the adoration of the '250s. A complicated situation. The two tonearms differ as well in the vertical bearings, which are very different one from the other (and yet another reason the ‘250 is considered superior); as well as the spring-being-audible thing (I know all the arguments, but trust my ears), which can be addressed by simply applying some grease to kill any ringing, if one is really worried (but a fair comparison does reveal the ‘300’s greater smoothness/refinement, so what exactly is being heard apart from neurosis?), and preserve the extra flexibility the dynamic downforce offers. One has to remember that the whole ‘250-is-superior thing started with Origin Live, which established itself as a business by exactly this claim, offering upgrades to the ‘250 (just as the current slate craze for plinths started in Wales, a world exporter for slate, with no comparisons done against other stones) which became very popular.
With MCs however, and also as the systems go up in terms of resolution and high-frequency extension, the picture changes and I find the RB-300 quite a bit more refined, and especially so as the MCs go up in quality. It also works extremely well with the Shure V15s, and likely certain other MMs. Anyway, it's probably more complicated than this, but I'll stand by the general sonic differences between the two arms, one being more aggressive ('250) and the other smoother and more refined ('300). Of course, as the MCs get better, especially in high-resolution, extended-highs systems, the RB-300 increasingly takes the lead.
After hearing Michael's system, which excels in imaging, soundstage, and easy differentiation of instruments as I could definitely hear, I decided to re-insert my own EL-84 based amp, my rebuilt Leak Stereo 20. I’d already mounted my Oracle Thalia/Benz Ebony H (which I ended up with due to a series of accidents) to the Rega with excellent results, bearing out the superb quality of this currently maligned tonearm, as is fashionable today to do, people forgetting that once upon a time the Rega RB-300 was the new Enfant Terrible of the tonearm world, being a victim in the public mind of its own success.
I am a media analyst by trade, a researcher who is paid to analyze how the reporting of facts and rhetoric are used to influence people’s thinking, and the results. So please indulge me as I find these developments fascinating, as I did the rise of the Belt and the “blacklisting” of the Idler.
Many believe the Rega followed the SME V, being a cheaper copy. The reverse is true, as everyone knew back in the ‘80s: the RB-300 came out first, in 1983, to great acclaim. It won an engineering award for its extra-long casting. SME followed in 1984 with its prototype SME V (the finished product came out later), as SME themselves admit, showing a greatness of spirit seemingly utterly lacking today: “The new SME arm aims to solve a major headache in one bold stroke, one already partially addressed by Roy Gandy in his Rega RB300.” I often read, when I very infrequently cruise the forums to see what’s being said, about the very poor construction of the Regas. Excuse me, but what the Hell are they talking about?? Its one-piece cast armtube is evidently superb. Its bearings, horizontal and vertical, have no detectable play: anyone who has handled several tonearms can feel its evident superb quality. Are they talking about the plastic arm-lift/antiskating platform? Most tonearms have these made of plastic. And the Rega is cheap. It was the Roksan/Rega combination which knocked the then-reigning King of Turntables, the Linn LP12/Ittok pairing off its throne, as reported in the world hi-fi press at the time, none other. It was as a result of the Roksan/Rega pairing that the door was opened for varying designs, and brought high end American record players into the mainstream of hi-fi (the honourable ARs aside), by leading to the proliferation of design, since the Roksan broke the three-spring suspension rule, allowing the acceptance of alternatives (which many still resist, considering a three-spring record player to be still the only acceptable option).
People often have to go after the Big Gun, not out of a desire for the “truth”, but simply because they are so motivated. This leads to unfortunate results, as knocking the Regas out of various forms of ignorance and misplaced aggression only promotes the Audio as Status agenda, making the ultra-expensive tonearms more secure in their assumed superiority (based on their price tags). I started the Lenco/Idler change as a way of combatting the Audio as Status sickness (I was laughing as I wrote out the title of the first thread, “Building high-end 'tables cheap at Home Despot”, knowing I’d be tweaking the noses of these types), but this is far from over, as it infects even idler fans (who go after such unobtainium as EMTs and automatically assume superiority, and ditto DDs, the rarer and more expensive, the more the assumed the superiority…the price tag is the product to these types, and this further contaminates the search for facts/truth). New exclusivity clubs arise, and Rega-knocking by ignorant budget audiophiles, relying also on Origin Live marketing, unwittingly supports and nurtures this agenda.
Anyway, all that investigated and aside, installing the Thalia was like adding a subwoofer to the system after the Dyna Karat Ruby, but it lacked the absolute speed of the Ruby, as most, if not all MCs do. So I hooked up the Leak hoping to balance this out, and the result is music, glorious music: smooth, fast clear, lush, rhythmic, gorgeous. I suspect the longer I am away from the Karat, the less I “remember” its great speed. For now, I’m satisfied with the Lenco/Rega/Thalia, but will likely try the Karat again at some future point. Though ultra-fast and detailed/organized, the Karat is tonally/atmospherically threadbare as compared with the glorious richness of the Thalia/Ebony, not to mention the matter of the bass. Two presentations, both of them enjoyable (since both excel at PRaT and gestalt/togetherness).
Anyway, have fun with your various projects/plans all, take what you read with a few tons of salt, do your own research, exercise that rarely-mentioned and fading thing called "critical thinking" (and by this I mean **thinking** based on knowledge/research, not blindly attacking for the helluvit) think for yourselves, and trust your ears!! 'Scuse me for this return to the past, Ranting Into the Void, it just happened, Vive la Lenco, Vive la Idler Wheel!!