Building high-end 'tables cheap at Home Despot II

Gentlemen,

Andre Hanekom put a Garrard 301 inside a radically custom plinth fifteen years ago, and many people in the Far East have been making "monster plinths" for decades. The idea is not at all a new one, nor is direct coupling, etc. What is new is the proliferation of idler project photos on the Internet from various sources. Most of the ones that would entice a manufacturer to consider an idler option to his current lineup are those expensive Garrards exhibited by those who consider cost not to be an object. While it is true that Lenco building was partly responsible for idler interest, Lenco builders cannot lay claim to the current state of affairs regarding decisions made by manufacturers, in spite of all the hype and hoopla propagated about the Lenco's merits by certain individuals. Dropping an old turntable inside a huge block of wood sounds like a great idea, but it is not the panacea some would have you believe. It would be nice if turntable design was that easy, but that simply isn't the case.

Regards,

Hi Jean, if nothing else, your rants are always entertaining and...long. Thanks.

I want to add some info to your Teres Rim Drive bank. To say Teres is half way there compared to the Lenco/other idlers shows your lack of understanding here. In fact, the Teres unit takes the idler into the 21st century and beyond. Removing the idler removes one more source of noise. To knock it for lack of torque is misleading and laugable. The motor for the Teres Rim Drive has an amazing amount of torque on tap AND it is adjustable! It can turn a 70+ pound platter. Yet it is small enough to be exceptionally quiet. Speed stability is tops. I have seen and heard it. The adjustable torque feature is quite handy. It allows the listener to dial in the sound that suits their taste. Want your ZYX to sound more like a Koetsu? Dial down the torque. Want a little more dynamics, simple, turn it up. All this while maintaining absolute speed control. Too much torque is as bad as too little, trust me. Very easy to hear.

As good as the Lenco motor is, the Teres motor makes the Lenco motor look and sound like the relic it is. Why does the Lenco need an 80 pound plinth? To cover up the noise and harmonics generated by our beloved four pound Lenco motor, that's why. A heavy plinth is nothing more than a Band-Aid for a noisy motor, barely adequate bearing and harmonically challenged top plate. Downside to the Teres...$1690. Then again, some would call it a bargain. I have heard less improvement in sound that cost many times more.

Having said that, I don't mean to knock the Lenco or other idlers. This is NOT an "attack the Lenco/idler thing". Things just need to be put into perspective, thats all. I own many different idlers so I can hear them for myself in my system. I don't care which table costs more or has more status. The best two sounding tables earn their way into my system. Period. I have tremendous respect for these great pieces of audio history. They still can make a lot of modern and exspensive belt drives sound absolutely broken! No question. And when on a budget, the Lenco is THE king of the hill. I will always own a Garrard 301 and 401, EMT 930 and most likely a Lenco or two. But they are not in my system. If you think that nothing can beat a Lenco, even in a giant plinth, your head is buried somewhere my friend.

Cheers, Steve

There is a big difference between not liking the Lenco and not liking a reality-twisting gasbag. Disdaining one and appreciating the other seems to be widely practiced.

Steve, So are you saying that you personally have compared a Teres rim driven tt to a max'd out Lenco or Garrard and that the results are resoundingly in favor of the former? If not, then aren't you being as guilty as Jean of turntable Chauvinism? But if you have done the comparison, under valid conditions, I'd like to know.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, and as always Vetterone, you choose to ignore the reports of Lencos beating EMTs, reported by their very owners (not all Lenco implementations are created equal, I am only interested in realizing the idler potential). The 80-pound plinth a band-aid? Might as well say as well the 70-pound platter is a band-aid (used in many belt-drives, and some at even greater weight/mass... a band-aid to cover speed instabilities...if looked at Vetterone's way). Where's the difference? And if it works, then your whole argument is moot, as it is (ALL solutions to problems of implementation of systems are in this sense band-aids, like the complex electronics necessary to make direct drive work without sounding like crap). Fact is, a large inert mass is necessary to realize the Lenco potential (made potent by direct coupling), and the potential of most if not all idler-wheel drives (as the comparions between the Cain & Cain Garrard and the Giant Direct Coupled Garrard testifies). Not all implementations are created equal.

And, despite the various personalities who have tried again and again to misrepresent my activities as aimed only at promoting Lencos the better to dishonestly discredit (i.e. "misrepresent") me - "Remember all, the Mighty Lenco is merely a tool (being cheap, and this is the real reason for the attacks, not to mention lowly envy/personal attacks/gadflies) to make the Greatness of the Idler-Wheel Drive known, and this has been a tremendous success..." - I have ALWAYS made clear that the Lenco was simply a means to demonstrating to the world the greatness of the idler-wheel drive system in general. More, these idler activities and discussions of speed stability and drive systems led to such companies as Teres and now VPI to reconsider the idler-wheel drive, and led to Teres' current rim drive, much as they may deny it.

As always and since the beginning, I have nothing to hide and do not operate from blind prejudice. I encouraged the world to rebuild the Lencos away from my control and report in public their findings. This is called a search for the actual facts. Lo and behold it turned out the whole world was wrong (except for perhaps two fellows, ignored and shouted down), the Lenco WAS brilliant as I claimed, and the idler-wheel system much better than generally thought. And fact is, nothing has yet managed to even come close to a Giant Direct Coupled Lenco as I have advised be made (tricky and difficult to implement, but as Tunin4fun, the owner of a collection of Garrards and EMTs demonstrated, well worth the effort). This philosophy of truthful enquiry (i.e. get people to try it in their own systems) led, due to its incredible success, to the longest-running thread in audio history at the time it was deleted, and sparked dedicated websites. And, as I wrote, the Teres will prove itself superior - or not - to the Lenco when it is compared to a Giant Direct-Coupled Lenco in the same process of actual comparison THEN judgment, as I have written previously.

Jejune, good moniker, if you haven't heard a Lenco then just stick to your prejudices. In the meantime, I will continue to encourage actual comparisons and experience of the reality until the Lenco meets its match, and the idler wheel drive has been accurately placed in engineering history. The whole point of this review. When you have something constructive and not ugly to add, feel free to return. To those watching, I do occasionally get irritated by these constant and unecessary ugly personal attacks, and occasionally lose my cool and reply (who wouldn't?). I always regret this, but if I were NOT this way, people like Jejune would have played pile on the rabbit (as they do and in fact did in the beginning over on that other forum) and would have crushed the whole Lenco/Idler venture early on, and the current Teres rim-drive would almost certainly not exist, and many would still jump on any who dared mention an idler/rim-drive in the same breath as a belt-drive (ditto for DD), as the case was when I started, and many now converted would still be miserably listening to their over-priced belt-drives. Thanks for making my point Jejune, keep it up.

To all who are watching, I have ALWAYS put my money where my mouth is, and thrown down the gauntlet, meaning that, I leave it to actual comparison - i.e. testing the theory (say, that the Teres with its 70-pound platter as opposed to the Lenco with its 70-pound plinth is superior) - to decide the issue, not endless and ugly personal attacks of the sort put forward by, say, Jejune. I have always tried to stick to the subject - TEST the theory, compare. I have NEVER initiated ugly personal attacks, and only very rarely responded in kind (and always at a MUCH lower level of ugliness), as is a matter of public record (for those who are interested in the truth and not their own prejudices/hatreds).

So, this is the point of the Lenco review, which, assuming it is ever released from Customs and the review to proceed (I'm beginning to wonder): a first professional and OBJECTIVE review of the Lenco, which will open the door to others, as has already happened for the Garrards and the Thorenses. THEN, with the years (evidently) we will know the truth of the matter, a first review is just an opening of the door.

Now, tomorrow I head to Egypt to bring costs down and see something REALLY interesting (though Jerusalem is an enormous buzz, incredible city which has me grinning like a Cheshire cat whenever I step into the electric souk/bazaaar streets), and from there I will have only very spotty acess to the internet, so feel free to indulge in yet more ugly personal attacks concerned fellows!! Erase me from my own activities, take credit, and use my own self-defense as an excuse to develop fresh venom. For thinking men (and for venomous "men" try to rise above the muck), keep an open mind and stick to the subject: I say the idler-wheel system is the best yet devised, let's actually test this out, avoid venom, and see. The Idler Wheel Revival taking place around the world is indeed very strong evidence for this, and even Teres' new rim-drive attests to it!

And finally, for those who just don't get it: this whole audio thing is just a tiny part of my life, and rather unimportant actually, except as it pertains to truth, I'm not an Audio Trekkie. My REAL passion, evidently, is seeing the world on extended months-long and years-long voyages, having adventures in unplanned fashion, and seeing what comes next (in fact, this whole Lenco venture is an example of this itself, an unplanned Movement rising from the Void). Throw in love/romance/women, fine foods and exotic or otherwise live music, and you have Jean, trapped between trips in Canada one fine winter, out of boredom remembering the anger he felt when he realized he and the world has been duped as far as the idler was concerned (on one of these trips/adventures, in Helsinki, with a beautiful woman), and starting a thread with the words Home Despot in them. It turned out to be a tremendous success, and became an enormous responsibility, which, Bohemian as I am, I feel intensely. This is the ONLY reason - and the pursuit and demonstration of the truth - I continue with this. I have often wondered if I should just disappear, but this would be granting to various ugly characters an undeserved victory, yet another responsibility. In other words, life, love, experience, are all FAR more important that audio, but audio too is a microcosm of the world, with its battles of truth vs deception, and even here, it seems, the battle must be fought. Be nice if the battles were more often about logic and evidence though, and less often - or not at all - envy, spite and status. I do, however, TRULY look forward to the day when I can with clear conscience be free of it, maybe even by the end of this trip!

In honour of Music, which IS an important experience/activity I grant you all, I go to hear a Bach performance in a courtyard next to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre tonight, and refresh my ears as to the sound of real instruments, in an amazing setting (just the way I like it). So, Vive la Lenco (which even if it turns out not to be the best is an incredible Gift), Vive la Idler (ditto), be back participating, if at all, likely aftere the review. Enjoy your summer all!!