ZYX Universe, Dynavector XV-1s, vdH Colibri, ??


Last Sunday i finally took the time to compare three cartridges; my Dynavector XV-1s (.24mv output), a friends ZYX Universe (.24mv output) and my vdH Colibri (.85mv output) with the darTZeel preamp and phono stage in battery power.

Some background. in a post from my system thread i describe the path that brought me to be experimenting with various cartridges. that post also raves about listening to battery power with the darTZeel phono stage. i promised to compare the Dynavector and ZYX to the Colibri on battery power.

so that is what i did.

the darTZeel preamp has plenty of gain (62db in the phono stage and 20 db in the gain stage of the pre itself) so even with the relatively low output of the Dynavector and ZYX there are no gain issues at all, i only needed to go to about 2 o'clock on the volume attenuator for very high volume with the 95db efficient VR9 speakers. in battery mode the darTZeel phono stage is extremely quiet; so the normal advantage the Colibri has over other cartridges with lower gain is considerably reduced.

the darTZeel phono stage is set with 100ohm loading that seemed to work well with all the cartridges but is not ideal. i know that the Colibri likes about 400-500 ohms ideally; and from what i understand the Dynavector and ZYX both are ok (if not ideal) around 100 ohms.

the Dynavector is pretty new and only has maybe 30 hours on it; so it has not yet openned up completely. i am told the ZYX is fully broken in......and my Colibri is most definitly broken in.

i am very familiar with the setup parameters of the Colibri. i run it with the arm slightly down at the back, and track it at 1.45 grams as measured by my ALM-01 Winds Electronic Stylus Pressure Gauge. with the Rockport there is no anti-skate issues.

i ran the Dynavector XV-1s at 2.70 grams and slightly down in the rear of the arm.......and the ZYX Universe at 1.95 grams and the arm level.

i had played around previously with the Dynavector for my 30 hours and had had the Universe in the system for about a week prior to get it dialed in. so i had a reasonably good idea of setup on each cartridge.

the Rockport does make it easy to switch cartridges very quickly as all you need to do is change the counterweight to the proper one for the weight of that particular cartridge. then adjust the arm length for exact stylus position (there is a groove in the platter that you sight the stylus exactly inside for perfect position), rotate the arm for visual azimuth (i can get it very very close to perfect), and set your VTF. in practice about a 20 minute job if you already know the VTF you want.

so i was able to first listen to the Colibri, switch quickly to the Universe, listen again, then switch quickly to the XV-1s, and listen again.

before i get into what i heard on Sunday i want to describe my perceptions of how the Dynavector and ZYX compared when i the Universe first arrived from my friend. for reasons described in the previous post i had purchased the Dynavector as an alternative to my Colibri and it had been in my system for about 6 weeks. i had been using my Lamm LP2 Delux phono stage with the Placette passive RVC and Tenor 300 watt Hybrid monoblocks. i liked the Dynavector; compared to the Colibri it was less exciting, less on the edge, less vivid and immediate and less explosive......OTOH although it had a little color it was fairly neutral, always natural, very involving and had very good detail if not quite like the Colibri. more of my favorite music was enjoyable compared to the Colibri.

when i installed the ZYX Universe my first impression was of slightly less smoothness and naturalness compared to the Dynavector but more of the excitement of the Colibri. i played some of the Lps that had been on the edge with the Colibri and the ZYX was more natural and under control yet considerably more exciting than the Dynavector.

on the Lamm/Placette/Tenor my initial impressions were that these were simply two good cartridges that had different perspectives. as i listened more to the ZYX i could never really get fully involved into the music as i had felt with the Dynavector or especially the Colibri. why? i'm not exactly sure. it was like i wasn't hearing as far into the music as i liked. nothing was missing from the 'checklist' but i wasn't fulfilled.

the Lamm has 57.5 db of gain, has 400 ohm loading, and is extremely quiet. it has a very slight warmth, just to the dark side of neutral; but has a textural richness and refinement that i have not heard from any other phono stage (until dart battery power). it should be an ideal match for the ZYX.

so that was how it was before i tried battery power (as described in my previous post). i hope this makes sense up to this point.

now to the three cartridge comparison.

first the Colibri. the Colibri can be a 'train wreck'. it breaks all the rules. the barrel and canteliver are out of algnment with the cartridge 'body'......so setting asthimuth you ignore the body and just align the cateliver and stylus. i have owned 3 Colibris and they are all different yet all inconsistent. they can have any length canteliver a customer wants, gold windings, copper windings, wood bodies, polycarbonite bodies.......they have such little play in their suspensions that they can 'buzz' on certain edgy types of music. they are the Formula 1 cars of cartridges. the Colibri is so immediate, so explosive, yet so natural and so incisive that if all elsewhere is not about perfect.....you will know it and there will be a problem.

OTOH when all is right the Colibri is magnificent.

long story made short; with the battery powered dart phono stage in my system; the Dynavector and especially the ZYX are not nearly in the class of the Colibri. as the system improves, the lead of the Colibri gets larger.

i used tracks on 7 Lps for this comparison.

1.Muddy Waters 'Folk Singer', 'Good Morning School Girl', Classic reissue.

the Colibri here made the guitar plucks real and there. the whole musical sense was vivid and immediate. there was not a sense of the recording chain.....just some guys doing their thing. totally involving. each note dripped with reality. brilliant colors in the vocals and guitar overtones. ALIVE.

with the Universe it sounded great, nothing missing, satisfying. but; the guitar pluck was not as vivid, the colors were less vivid, there was overall a bit of haze that only compared to the Colibri was evidant. maybe no other cartridge would expose that issue. the decay of notes was reduced which reduced the overall involvement. sounded like a different pressing. NOT ALIVE.

on the Dynavector this was more different. less energy, less edge. transients were softened. smoother and warmer. very nice. a great sense of ease but too buttoned down for me. this track should boggie. excellent bloom and note decay.

2. The Royal Ballet, side one, Classic 33rpm reissue.

Colibri; spooky good. i don't want to stop. an 'oh my god' about every 30 seconds. i try to critically listen but it's hard.....i just want to close my eyes and forget about everything. about the best reproduced strings i have ever heard. such a sense of venue, the 'subway' and 'buses' outside seem real. where am i?

ZYX Universe; a different realm......reproduced music. very good.....but less of everything. very, very good. specifically, less separation of instruments, less delicacy
and less clarity. the effortlessness of the Colibri in sorting out the complex textures is missing.

Dynavector; not the detail or energy of the Colibri but very natural. slightly veiled but warm and inviting. not
wholey real but still much beauty. good flow and pulse of the music.

it's getting late; i will continue tomorrow morning or evening as time permits.

the Dynavector and ZYX are excellent cartridges that by themselves are rightly considered SOTA. just because i hear what i hear doesn't invalidate anyone else's perspectives.

so as not to attract too many flames i want to clearly state that i limit my comments to my specific system and setup choices. there are many varibles i have not or cannot address; arms, cartridge loading, breakin, taste, settleing in. i did not do the tiny tweaking of these cartridges that one does over time to dial them in just right. OTOH the differences that i heard are considerable and not subtle.

it just one guys opinion on one particular system on one particular day.

with that said; flame away.
mikelavigne
Thomas, you need to read the link to my previous post at the beginning of the first post of this thread. it describes exactly what you are saying; that the Lamm LP2 at 57.5db of gain is marginal on a .24 mv. output cartridge. in my particular case it did work with my Tenor amps and Placette, but the Lamm LP2 did NOT work with the darTZeel amps and the Placette passive with these .24 mv. cartridges.

then i switched to the 62db darTZeel phono stage inside the darTZeel pre and there was plenty of gain. so with the darTZeel pre the gain of the phono stage was not a significant factor in the comparison. OTOH the ohm loading very well may have been.

i would think that the Lamm LP2 would work in most cases with low output cartridges if an active preamp with typical gain and fairly high efficiency speakers are used. i used a passive with amps with low gain.
Dear Thomas: As an owner of two Coilbri cartridges and a Frog one, I can tell you that them have reliability and Dr. VDH is really good about customer service.
Many customer problems with the Colibri cartridges have more to do with the right set up on it, the breack-in time ( at least 150 hours ), the tonearm which were matched and the kind of audio system we have: the Colibri isa tool: it can tell you several " things " that are wrong or fine in your system. If we have the music-audio experience about cartridges like the Colibri are very well welcomed at home. This is not a cartridge for normal audiophiles or whealthy-amateurs ( I'm not saying that you are. )

Both of my Colibri cartridges and one for a friend of mine were really outstanding.
The Colibri is a cartridge where you or anyone has to understand it an have to have the patience for obtain the best on it: yes, it is not a very user friendly cartridge but like Mike said: " OTOH when all is right the Colibri is magnificent. "

The evaluation that Mike explain in this thread was not with the Lamm preamp but with the darTZeel preamp that does not have any gain problem.
Btw, I respect Lamm products but at that Lamm price is incredible that is using SUT. This internal step-up transformer preclude any serious cartridge evaluation.

Mike nice to see that you are trying a phonopream with out SUT: great!!!!!!

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
I happen to have this subject particularly dear and close to my heart as I have both the colibri xgw and a universe silver sb. I bought the colibri before the universe and instantly was blown away by the colibri. The sheer power of dynamics is amazing. Mr Lavigne is right that it is a wonderful cartridge. To me, it does somethings better than any other cartridge I have heard, including the xv1s and the universe silver. I have had a lot of experience with a friends xv1s. I actually bought the universe because I got tired of waiting for my colibri to return from the netherlands after another mishap. This is where my complaints on the colibri start. The totally nude design is too vulnerable. I have had the coils go out. I lost the stylus tip and broke off the cantilever twice. I have had 8 cartridges in the last 12 years and the colibri is the only one that I have ever had to send back for repair. The silver is almost as good as the colibri with respect to dynamics and where the the universe kicks the colibri's butt is in the area of space and the recreation of the hall. When I put on the RCA reissue of Witchs Brew. I feel like I'm at the symphony riding along with the violinist. The universe has a fullness to the sound that I never really had with the colibri. Vocals seem to leave the realm of reproduction and scratch at the surface of reality. While I can relay my experience, I feel that the type of arm and phono stage is so critical that all of my results could be reversed with different components. I have a vpi hrx with a jmw 12.6 and a rs labs RS A1 arm. The universe is great with the jmw arm and just gets better with the RS Labs arm. The rs labs arm is not every ones cup of tea and requires balls of brass to negotiate, but it is incredible for those who take the risk and was my only option to put a second arm on the HRX. The dyna xv1s I hear regularly on a friends HRX and to this day I have yet to hear its better for 3-dimensionality. He uses the analysis audio Omega speakers, 500 watt vtl amps, the west phono stage and the new antique sound labs line stage. We compared the colibri xcp for two weeks prior to permanently leaving the xv1s after it fully broke in and soundly obliterated the colibri. On his system the combination of the xv1s was the best. I never brought over my universe. Also note that I have 2 other friends with colibri's that no longer are attached to their cantilevers and are away for repairs. Unfortunately, I feel this should be a consideration when purchasing such an expensive cartridge. I don't mean to be down on the colibri because its sound is almost a revelation but its delicate design is a problem. I must give up the fact that Mr Lavigne's system is far and away in a different class than my own but I hope this could be helpful to a potential shopper.
P.S. If you have children think hard before getting the colibri. It could be heart breaking.
Some very interesting thoughts,here.I'm continually fascinated by the wonderful insight,of so many.To take a differing view,just to add some food for thought,I believe that some of the more well heeled audio buffs would be better served by ascribing to a particular SOUND,they may like.Assuming you have made an effort to hear a wide variety of really good systems,in other people's homes.This may be hard,yet you will definitely learn ALOT about your own set-up.Maybe even change perceptions,as to the performance envelopes,like those expressed in these interesting cartridge "OPINIONS"!!

My point being,that once we have experienced enough truly great stuff,the exercise/gap,of trial and error(you save some good bucks,too)is reduced,and you can actually have a shot at being satisfied with what you already own,WITHOUT rationalization.While still holding on to the feeling that your component ownership is STILL,at least,"nearly SOTA"(which is the most any of us is likely to get,if we are lucky).Which it SHOULD be(and why not?),with some good knowledge.If afflicted with this hobby,this level of satisfaction is "HAD",once a few criteria are obtained.

#1-You know what really good music "reproduction" is(alot of us don't.SORRY!).POTENTIAL EXAMPLE:"A shitload of bass drivers,in a one box speaker set-up has made the designer alot of money,but the hobbyist better be a GREAT set-up man,cause the seller has made his dough!!This doesn't mean I think it's impossible,but it's darn hard!Whew,I got off the hook on that one.

#2-You really want some FINALITY(alot,once again,don't),and the magazines LOVE you,for it.

#3-You have gained enough insight(having a really good ear doesn't hurt)to "KNOW" you have the ability to seperate your LUST,for new stuff,and use your LOGIC(once again,alot of us don't.Really sorry,here!!).Having a very good "AUDIO FRIEND BASE" is INVALUABLE,here!!

#4-You have finally realized that turning over alot of stuff,often,is NOT going to get you great sound.It WILL,in some cases, get you a new wife!

I am in AWE of the TOO FEW,but they do exist,audiophile/music lovers who have demonstrated to me,on a regular basis,the ability to stay fixed on an ascribed "SOUND".These are the most compelling set-ups I've had the pleasure of hearing!BTW-their wise owners CAN afford frequent component turnover.They are as Rare as the "Lord God Bird"!You,also,ALWAYS come home later(from a listening session,on them)than you told your wife you would.

Surely the latest doo-dad is a hot topic,but tomorrow it will be "Ancient History".Maybe it IS good enough to find a fairly longtime place in a great set-up.Maybe not.The "really" well thought out system will be almost,sort of,"heirloomish"!! The component interaction is just SO right,that you no longer care about the "BEST" anymore.We have gained enough experience to finally identify,and obtain "THAT CERTAIN SOUND",we have been chasing.It DOES exist, for some I have come to know.Maybe this sounds silly,but think about it.This is something to really get excited about!!

I hope I made some kind of sense,here!

Best to all!!
Sir Speedy,
I don't thimk I have heard a funnier, wiser , or truer tirade here before. What one might call sonic nirvana may be someone's nightmare. I think at some level there must be an agreement that a system has a good sound, but whether another individual is looking for that "sound" or not is were personal taste enters the picture. Can we all afford to keep turning over components? It is enjoyable if not compulsive.
Oh, about coming home later than I told my wife, I resemble that. I haven't lost her yet but there is always tomorrow.
Ciao!