$800 Cartridge Shootout and Upgrade Path

Dear Artar1,
"The Schroeder is a well-respected arm. If you have your heart set on it, you might as well get it. But it does look a little temperamental and perhaps somewhat difficult to install. For me the price is a major barrier."
Just to give me some insight as to how people perceive my products: What gives you the feeling that my arms(or where you referring to the Reference only)are difficult to install?
It takes just two holes(M4-tapped, if you´re using a metal or acrylic board, 3,5-4mm woodscrew, if your tt has a wooden mounting board). The other model are no challenge either(21-25mm hole, one or three mounting screws required). No elongated holes or any need to get underneath the turntable.
As for the set up, Chris Brady can attest to the ease of set up once you´ve under stood how the arms work(no rocket science, hehe). BTW, one of the reasons I discontinued the No.1 arm is that it did require more time to get the set up spot on.
Pricing, yes, this gives me a headache too, but the weak $ is something that is beyond my influence(scary if I had any ;-)). I promise that as soon as the $ goes up again the prices will be adjusted...
None of the above is to say that one shouldn´t go for what one feels most comfortable with(sound, operation, looks).
Whichever arm you´re choosing, if you put it on a Teres or a Galibier, you´ve come alot closer to the "final" recordplayer.

Best,

Frank Schröder

From my trial and error experimentation I've come to the same conclusion as TWL and Dougdeacon. Unsuspended turntables don't sound good with spongy isolation beneath them. Now that doesn't mean you can't use some form of vibration damping or isolation - just don't use spongy stuff.

I would love to build a seismic sink (aka sand box), but my situation doesn't allow it. Here's what I improvised, and it works great for me:

http://home.att.net/~ptmconsulting/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-664443.html

TT on a maple butcher block, with DIY rollerblocks underneath. My kids can run through the room without skipping the needle. And the sound is quick and detailed and musical.

Enjoy,
Bob

Much like Goldilocks, I'm looking for "just right".

Good analogy. Aren't we all?!

Paul and I are currently reviewing two ZYX cartridges, the Airy2 and Airy3, with a third model possibly to follow. Without spilling the beans I can say that in one sonic particular we'd both occasionally prefer something in between, at least for certain records.

Paul said he'd like a 2.7, I'd prefer a 2.8! ;-)

Seriously enough, this small difference shows that individual preferences do matter. Oddly, if we'd tried to predict in advance which direction each of us would lean, we both would have predicted the opposite direction from the one I just joked about. Try as we all do to communicate our musical and sonic impressions in words, there's no substitute for hearing.

The Schroeder is a well-respected arm. If you have your heart set on it, you might as well get it. But it does look a little temperamental and perhaps somewhat difficult to install.

The Reference is certainly no more difficult to install than any other arm. You have to fine tune the adjustments of course, as with any good arm, but once set up it looked perfectly stable to me. I didn't perceive anything "tempermental" about it.

It does have a certain delicacy that takes getting used to. There's no finger lift or armtube lock! It's not an arm for the fumble-fingered or careless. The arm itself is robust enough but cantilevers are not. Since the arm is not locked when sitting on the armrest, I'd keep the stylus guard on at all times. That's about the only risk I could see.

Guys, thanks for your very nice comments about my posts.

I just call 'em as I see 'em.

Even though I work for an audio company, I always try to maintain my perspective as an audiophile and a prospective buyer/user of equipment.

Chris(Letch), my phone number at Starsound is 1-800-307-0728. I'd be happy to discuss anything audio related with you, anytime you want to call. Even if it is not Starsound related, or having anything to do with buying anything. People call me all the time to discuss their systems, and what I might think of the possible changes they are making, or what things to consider.

Also, anyone else reading this that would like to talk to me on the phone is invited to call anytime too. I'm sure that some people reading this have already spoken with me on the phone. Alot of people call me about analog stuff, and we don't even sell any TT gear(although I have a couple of designs in the file cabinet drawer). I probably also get about 10 emails a day about analog related stuff, from the Audiogon members.

I actually like discussing this stuff.

And you know how it goes. Eventually, everybody needs some points, or a rack, or something. So we get our chance to get our stuff auditioned. Over 90% of the time, when someone listens to our stuff, they keep it. All we ever ask for is a fair chance in the listening environment. Most of our sales go to buyers who already have something we make, and they know how good it is. We are always looking for a chance to let someone new hear how our products can reveal more of the sound of the components that they already own. We may not have made your components, but we make the stuff that helps your components sound the best they can. It is like an equipment upgrade, but you keep the same equipment. You just hear more out of it.

I'm a bit confused about putting an unsuspended table on a soft surface. My Well Tempered Classic (unsuspended) has a polyurethane rubber type of "footie" over the feet and the factory has told me that it sounds best this way. I've always presumed this was designed into the table to wick away vibrations that are generated by the table (as opposed to preventing external vibration from getting to the table).

I was thinking about making a base out of wood with a space in it to fill it with shot/sand to wick away vibrations caused by the table/cartridge, but maybe I still need the rubber footies??

Perhaps someone could shed some light?

BTW- Frank Schroder- I've read a number of your posts with great interest. Although I don't comprehend all of what you've contributed, it's fascinating. Thanks.

Regards
Jim