DACs, external clocks, and what's what

It also happens that quite a few expensive DAC’s/sources that are connected to a quality external clock improve sonically because of this. So, ideally this and that is just that. Pragmatically things can be different. 

Or they improve only when the original internal clock is so-so.  Just playing devil's advocate here.  Buy what you want to listen to, by all means, but there's a number of situations where I've seen gear deliberately degraded to show buyers a real difference in the "value" vs. "luxury" version.  Worth always keeping an open mind and firm grip on one's wallet. 

there are some really expensive DACs that can benefit from an external clock, and there are some pretty modestly priced DACs that would not.  IMHO, if a DAC either reclocks or effectively filters jitter (e.g., PLL), an external clock is a waste of money.  HiFi News feeds DACs a dirty (jitter-y) signal and then measures jitter at the analog output stage.  So you can see an £1800 Topping has one hundred times le’s jitter than an £8000 Aqua La Scala, which is an NOS design.  The latter would benefit from an external clock, the former would not.

@ericrhodes1 wrote:

distance matters

Even so; if an external clock makes a difference for the better in a specific setup context - distance, cables and connectors be damned - isn’t that an improvement to be embraced like in other areas of the system chain, not to mention if the improvement is substantial and it can be had for an acceptable outlay? Put that into the perspective of money used on cables, coupling/decoupling and network optimizations, for example. So, everything apparently matters, but not actual experience had with external clocks other than theorizing?

@erik_squires wrote:

Or they improve only when the original internal clock is so-so.  Just playing devil’s advocate here. 

Expensive "standalone" DAC’s and sources fall short compared to using external clocks (if at all possible) - going by reviews and user feedback we know that to be true in some cases. Whether it comes down to the built-in clocks here are only so-so or the external dittos are just that much greater because of dedicated PSU’s, overall design and clock quality that would be deemed too expensive and take up too much space in a single chassis, well, who knows.

I would suggest that the urge to have everything built-in comes with a compromise performance-wise, even with the proximity criteria accommodated, and maybe the incentive behind that urgency has a hard time coping with that possible fact?

Buy what you want to listen to, by all means, but there’s a number of situations where I’ve seen gear deliberately degraded to show buyers a real difference in the "value" vs. "luxury" version.  Worth always keeping an open mind and firm grip on one’s wallet. 

I buy that which makes an improvement in my setup (why would an external clock be subject to skepticism more than other component categories - I mean, is actual experience the basis for this?), and I’m not in the habit of throwing coins left and right in a frivolous manner to achieve that, on the contrary.  

With regard to "... gear deliberately degraded," I believe that’s an assumption that is perfectly applicable in many cases for the reason pointed out by you (and that’s exactly one of the reasons why I went with the gear choices in my setup that I’ve made).

If we’re to apply that to external clocks however, here’s another perspective: some people feel that the much better value in addition to maximizing the performance envelope is holding back on DAC and/or source expenditure and instead invest in an external clock for what is an overall cheaper solution - if the connectivity choices allow, that is. I’ve compared much more expensive standalone streamers to my DIY music server/streamer + external clock combo, and I comfortably say that I prefer the latter scenario for sound quality alone. Isn’t that what they call a win-win scenario? :)

Meh, good dacs don't "improve" just because you hear a difference with an external clock. It's different because the distance added noise which changes the sound. And most people say, "it's different so it must me better." Just buy a better dac and be done with it. Lol. 

@kerrybh 

Great topic and thanks for starting the thread.   I have learned a great deal...

"Cynics imply its just a money grab."

I not a cynic - I am a realist:  It is ALL a money grab (with a bit of passion thrown in by the best of them).

Otherwise, these companies would all be out of business!