Maybe it IS all in the DAC chips

@richardbrand - oversampling does not increase amount of information in the stream (per information theory) so although it helps somewhat, it does not eliminate need of the proper filter and there is always compromise between slope and phase linearity and quality of parts. My point was that analog part is much easier to mess up. DSD still requires low pass albeit less complex. I can see from GR Research YT videos how often crossover filters in $$$$ speakers are messed up. So there.

@mikhailark 

oversampling does not increase amount of information in the stream (per information theory) so although it helps somewhat, it does not eliminate need of the proper filter

As you say, repeating a sample four, eight or more times does not add any information (not even helping somewhat).  What it does do is change the proper filter characteristics needed, from steep slope to shallow slope with far less phase shift, etc.. Philips knew this from the get go.

My beef was with your earlier statement that "DAC output requires brickwall filter" which is untrue for oversampling dacs and especially untrue for dacs that decode DSD natively.

@faustuss 

Why wouldn't they, they've been the preeminent semiconductor developer and manufacturer forever

In your context, they refers to TI or Texas Instruments.  In 2000 TI spent $7.6-billion to acquire Burr-Brown for its expertise especially in analogue / digital conversion.  So TI has hardly been "the preeminent semiconductor developer and manufacturer forever".

In the same way, ESS and AKM seem to have leapfrogged TI.

These days the vast majority of high-end chips are made in Taiwan, not the USA.

Getting back to dac architectures, there are fundamental differences between say resistance ladder dacs, including R2R, and sigma-delta dacs which are closely aligned with DSD.  An R2R dac cannot handle DSD natively - you don't need a ladder when there's only one level .

If you are not convinced by dac specifications and data sheets, look at the package / pin diagrams.  If there is no pin to indicate the input is DSD, and the dac can handle PCM, then it won't handle DSD at full native resolution without external conversion to PCM.

My warning to others is that some Burr-Brown dacs in some high-end SACD players do not natively process DSD.  I wasted money on the Burr-Brown equipped Reavon player when the equivalent Reavon transport would have done the same job for $1,000 less.  Magnetar buyers should check the included dacs or risk being disappointed.

Can you hear the difference?  I certainly could

If a guy is chasing dacs and cables too much... it generally implies that his speaker is sht, room is also lackluster and in need of treatment.

@richardbrand 

"In your context, they refers to TI or Texas Instruments.  In 2000 TI spent $7.6-billion to acquire Burr-Brown for its expertise especially in analogue / digital conversion.  So TI has hardly been "the preeminent semiconductor developer and manufacturer forever".

In the same way, ESS and AKM seem to have leapfrogged TI.

These days the vast majority of high-end chips are made in Taiwan, not the USA.

Getting back to dac architectures, there are fundamental differences between say resistance ladder dacs, including R2R, and sigma-delta dacs which are closely aligned with DSD.  An R2R dac cannot handle DSD natively - you don't need a ladder when there's only one level angry.

If you are not convinced by dac specifications and data sheets, look at the package / pin diagrams.  If there is no pin to indicate the input is DSD, and the dac can handle PCM, then it won't handle DSD at full native resolution without external conversion to PCM.

My warning to others is that some Burr-Brown dacs in some high-end SACD players do not natively process DSD.  I wasted money on the Burr-Brown equipped Reavon player when the equivalent Reavon transport would have done the same job for $1,000 less.  Magnetar buyers should check the included dacs or risk being disappointed.

Can you hear the difference?  I certainly could"

It's nice to know you think you're well-informed Richard but even better if you could communicate it in an even remotely linear fashion. Again, as I said earlier about lengthy dissertations reiterating what commenters have already said.