How many watts do you really need?

 @faustuss I hear you my friend, but HEADROOM is not about LOUDNESS or how loud a system can go, and neither is wattage. Needing Headroom and wattage is for when you are not using efficient speakers like KLIPSCH, but when you are using inefficient speakers like my Borresen X1 stand mount speakers that are very low impedance speakers and so are others like them and you will need to power them with very high wattage starting at 100 to 200 and much more if you don't want to destroy the amplifier and the speaker. That is where the headroom in wattage is necessary and must be available to keep the amplifier and the speakers running smooth without CLIPPING and not for loudness at all but, believe it or not it does help. Now let's go back to the post that started this topic, HOW MANY WATTS DO YOU REALL NEED? from (Roadcykler). he then went on to say, according to the president of D Agostino he and others make amps that are way more watts than any of us will ever need and almost none of them stayed in class A very long. That's when I explained that...

D Agostino/ Gryphon and other high-powered amplifier mfg. are not catering to the laymen audiophile but to the ULTRA HIGH END where power is usually the demand. I was just sticking to the thread from the post. In my post I went on to explain that the High wattage is for HEADROOM because in ultra-high end power amplifiers that usually start out in class A and not long after moving on to class AB must have the power to push the speaker without clipping and that is why they use high power and cater to the ultra-high end where power is usually the demand. Either way like I said headroom is not for loudness but to have sufficient amount of power to not destroy the speakers or the amplifiers if they are low impedance speakers such as 1- 2- 4- 6 ohm. I also go on to say that I am not an ULTRA HIGH-END AUDIOPHILE, But I believe in power for HEADROOM. 

As for you saying I don't know what SUBJECTIVE means, that in itself is very SUBJECTIVE. 

GOOD DAY & GOOD NIGHT... PEACE TO ALL

@faustuss 

Stop being so SENSITIVE!!!, I think I know what that means because if I don't, you're sure showing me what it may sound like when someone is being it. Man to Man your system is great and so is mine, so let's Enjoy!!! what we have... Have a good night and a better day,

PEACE! to You and ALL

@elliottbnewcombjr 

I mean your whole string of responses, what is your point?

Some meters have a 'peak hold' feature, others have a fast response/slow return so it's easier to see values and peaks.

You can also find 'peak' or 'max' on SPL meters, and calculate from your 'avg' (to ascertain how many watts were needed for those peaks based loosely on your speaker's sensitivity.

Dude there's something mentally wrong with you being defensive and seeing an argument.

1. You mentioned some meters show peak values. 

2. I asked which product are you referring to so maybe it's something I could buy. It was a simple respectable question.

I'm concluding you are making up some so-called meters that can show peak values.

I also asked how you can calculate peak watts from a sensitivity rating. My understanding is sensitivity does not cover the full bandwidth. If there was something I don't understand correctly, please clarify. It was an honest and respectable question. But again with this math, it seems now something made up.

It's pulling teeth to get an answer from you.

@bartsw 

the discussion is about

"According to the president of D’Agostino, he and others make amps that are way more watts than any of us will ever need and almost none of them stay in class A very long."

I’m asking you to sum up your contribution/belief/opinion related to that.

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My posts have been my experience related to, yes, we use very little power ’except’ for peaks. That leaves everyone needing to judge how much reserve we want for those peaks.

That’s how I got into meters showing peaks, and posted the Fosi thingy, I ordered one, it will be here Monday.

I recalled having to change the setting on McIntosh meters, just to get them moving, and mentioned that. Struck me as a joke at the time, like, you sure as hell don’t need all that power if it can’t even move the needles.

I have a digital SPL meter that shows db’s, active, avg, peak.

My Reel to Reel Meters seem to rise faster than they fall, that’s my perception, I assumed by design to help me set the levels to avoid distortion/over-saturation while recording, and/or playback.

I read half of a long article that popped up about McIntosh Meter history, it got complicated, I stopped reading, but I thought it mentioned the new linear meters have ’peak hold’, so I mentioned that. I just tried, it didn’t pop up this time, you could do your own search.

As for sensitivity, you mentioned the avg. spec we are given is for 300 to 3,000 hz. That’s the 1st I ever heard that, no one else said ’that’s right’ or ’that’s wrong’, so I’m in no position whether to believe that or not.

In any case, I believe 300-3000 is the bulk of what we hear, bulk of what we need power for, as I said, very low will have it’s own separate amp, and highs do not need much power for any sound level, too much power burns their coils.

Soooo, I used the term ’based loosely’ on your speaker’s sensitivity. If you want a simple answer, and don’t have or want to buy meters, an inexpensive SPL meter (I think everyone should own one) and your speaker’s sensitivity can give you a ’loose answer’. And that’s at the listening position, not 1 meter away.

btw, IF these speakers can make 90db at 1 meter away, which is quite loud, with only 1 watt, doesn’t that prove the statement  "... way more watts than any of us will ever need ..."

All of this meter/sensitivity/peaks is complicated by true impedance curves which are far from flat, have dips, peaks, and I don’t know how meters response to varying impedance is.

I like tubes, and my preference is for 30-45 wpc, and I have always advised: ’don’t even listen to inefficient speakers (you may like/love them), don’t do it’

so, instead of countering what I say, relative to ’yes, we use very little power, except peaks’, tell us what you believe, especially, how do we ascertain enough power for peaks.

Speaking of a question that demands the answer: It Depends. That is it. If I had a few days, I’d write a ten page answer to the question. It is incredibly multifaceted and complex. I topic best suited for an essay or book.