How many watts do you really need?

@elliottbnewcombjr 

15" woofers, weighing 37lbs each

I can’t say I have used or seen a vintage with large woofers such as 15" that could go below 30Hz, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It was more about SPL in those days than frequency range. Vintage Klipsch Cornwall with 15" woofers = 34Hz.

Yes, small stand mounts are more demanding, but it’s not because they have more frequency, it is because they are less efficient/lower sensitivity.

Demanding is a bit off of a term because towers are more demanding. Sensitivity is only from 300Hz - 3kHz. The B&W 805 D2 bookshelf has a 88dB sensitivity but my 802 is 90dB. The crossover is 350Hz and the biggest difference is the woofer and cabinet size. So 802 gets the benefit of 50Hz (350-300Hz) added to the sensitivity rating. Also sub bass on the 802 can be around 15Hz. You need more power to move heavier drivers but not as much as one would think because they are not high excursion drivers like a subwoofer. That’s why I see towers more demanding. btw, the 802 is A LOT louder than 2dB over the 805 if sensitivity was really a full range measurement.

Overall, I would have thought it’s as easy as having a meter on an amp to tell you how much power is being used, but apparently it isn’t. I have yet to hear from a professional in the industry that can definitively answer the question. On another note, I’d be curious to try the meter on the Laiv GaN amp on my B&W 802 and see what it shows.

@bartsw 

"Don't vintage speakers have poor frequency range? I can't imagine them to be as demanding as newer speakers with growing interest in bass."

I gave you a 'general' answer, I didn't realize you were specifically focusing on very low and very accurate low bass.

Below 30/40 hz at spl equal to the rest of the frequencies, without distortion: old or new you are talking about a swarm of subs, and they will have their own amps, and a large space, that's not what the discussion is about.

It's about amps generally being more powerful than we need for primary L/R speakers?

@elliottbnewcombjr 

It's about amps generally being more powerful than we need for primary L/R speakers?

Below 30/40 hz at spl equal to the rest of the frequencies, without distortion: old or new you are talking about a swarm of subs

No I'm not talking about subs. I'm talking about full range speakers. My LR can do 20Hz out of the box on par with the rest of the frequencies. With an avg of 78dB, the -3dB (F3) is about 18Hz. F3 for the center channel is about 22Hz with an avg of 74dB.

https://mega.nz/file/2V5nBBqa#IRwieihX9LqN37_8nE_ZG9W-rfID5UHRQoMSmfkxTik

So it depends on who you're talking to; amps might NOT be more powerful than we need for LR speakers.

Anyone have one of these, or something like it?

https://www.amazon.com/Fosi-Audio-Amplifier-Visualizer-Component/dp/B0CZRMSHJB/ref=sr_1_7?sr=8-7

I don't think when they are speaking off high wattage they're talking about the layman audiophile. Keep in mind that there are and is levels to this hobby like there is in sport and game. When Dan D'Agostino/ Gryphon, and others who produce power amplifiers with very high wattage... you must understand that it is because they are catering to the ULTRA HIGH END ADIOPHILE. They are in no means suggesting that you must have a tremendous amount of wattage to get great sound. But instead, they are suggesting and letting us know that very high wattage is used in the ultra-high end power amplifiers that they produce. So, let's be frank about what is being written and said to have the understanding that it is not pertaining to everyone that is an Audiophile. Those HIGH-POWERED amplifiers are for the ELITE ADIOPHILES of the ULTRA HIGH END who are more than likely using speakers that are very power hungry and will need 200 to 600 CLASS- A WATTS to bring them to the highest performing levels that will reproduce live sound dynamics cleanly and precisely with little to no weaknesses of power being drained from the amplifier when the power notes hits their peaks. That should answer the question about why high wattage is needed and that some amplifiers will only be made to deliver it.

@bluorion, as for the first watt, if anyone believes that you can get really great sound with great dynamics and good bass from one watt, please let us all know how that worked out for you. Even with headphones one watt is not sufficient to bring out the dynamics and bass notes frequencies that are needed for good sounding silent black background music. The reason Nelson Passed said that about the first one is because the first watt becomes the most important watt once the music starts and hits the speakers to then being played when it comes to building an amplifier. The specks and sound must be on target for the next or any other watt that follows to perform in a high-quality manner before it can be passed by his inspection.

I am not an ULTRA HIGH END ADIOPHILE, but I do believe in THE POWER.

NOTE: Just think... Frankenstein would not have come to life without it, and only the DOCTOR KNEW THAT.

Good day and Peace to All.